Chance an Indian Male for Finance and hopefully Investment Banking [AZ Resident, 1560 SAT, 3.6 UW, NMSF]

Chance Me / Match Me
21

You said in your OP that your low 9th grade GPA was due to Covid?

(3.2 In Freshman year brings it down a ton for COVID reasons,

Yes, if the way OP said their HS weights classes (+1 for AP and honors classes) is accurate. IU is quite transparent about how they use transcripts in their decision making process. I agree with OP that IU will be a safety for them (assuming an app that meets relevant deadlines), while ASU IBIS is not (lots of IBIS applicants will have 4.0 college GPAs, not to mention IBIS selection is holistic.)

Many undergrad majors are represented in IBā€¦.math, neuroscience, English and many more. You would benefit from continuing to engage here and doing additional research in IB, now and once you get to college. Good luck.

4 Likes
22

So personally, I think when your surface numbers are not good and you basically need to persuade them to make you an exception to their normal academic standards, a carefully chosen list followed by really thoughtful applications may be particularly beneficial. Shotgunning as I see it is basically inviting them to see you the way you see themā€“as an easily substitutable commodity. And since your surface numbers are not good they may be inclined to just substitute other applicants with better surface numbers.

But in the end it is your process, so if you are committed to shotgunning that is obviously your decision to make. I just thought it was worth hearing not everyone agrees that is actually going to be the best strategy for getting one or more additional offers to consider.

6 Likes
23

If you make poorer grades in classes that you have no interest in, and the poorer grades are such that it affects your GPA, then I would strongly recommend that you look at the graduation requirements at the colleges on your list. Some schools, like Columbia and U. of Chicago, are known for having a significant core curriculum. Even a place like MIT wants its students to have a breadth of knowledge. Although youā€™ve disclaimed an interest in liberal arts colleges, Amherst would be one that I think you might want to take a closer look at.

I am NOT in IB, but I wonder whether Stevens Institute of Technology might be a good school to consider. Odds of admission would be greater than at most of the schools on your list, its core curriculum seems to be the type that might work to your strengths (or at least not emphasize the areas of lesser interest), and though it also has econ and finance majors, its Quantitative Finance major might be of particular interest for you. The page on the major also includes the core curriculum requirements in a version that might be a bit easier to see how it melds with the courses for the major.

2 Likes
24

Unless youā€™re planning to pursue an nmsf deal Iā€™m not sure it will be of help.

Make sure your transcript shows that 4.5 and if so Iā€™d expect IU Kelley to be safe. Apply early.

You have been to SMU and didnā€™t like. Have you been to the others, including IU to ensure they fit you ?

1 Like
25

Something to consider. A lot of kids just see the $$$ reported on salaries for well known big/boutique institutions and actually donā€™t realize both the difficult road to get there, and then the even more difficult road once you are in. Was going to post this article in its own thread, but didnā€™t get around to it yesterday:

https://www.wsj.com/finance/banking/bank-of-america-worker-death-policies-89eff5f6?st=2z81vi5cf7e2rws&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

I would add that the article is not an exaggeration having been a former IB. Of course there were fun/exciting moments, but the grind is there, especially for juniors.

9 Likes
26

FWIW, in addition to the UCā€™s, Emory, CMU, and Stanford are all schools that reportedly do not consider freshman grades. CMU Tepperā€™s Computational Finance major seems like it could be a particularly good fit for you, since you want the CS piece in there, and itā€™s a top-tier undergrad business school as well. CMU doesnā€™t give a huge ED bump (Emoryā€™s is much bigger) but it might be something to think about - they have both ED1 and ED2.

Itā€™s always hard to guess whether these policies of officially not considering freshman grades really make a big difference, compared to how other colleges will regard a strong improving trend like yours. Itā€™s more reassuring to know that they promise to disregard your weakest year, but it may be that most other schools will discount that weak year in this context anyway. No way to tell for sure.

Have you looked at UNLā€™s Raikes School? Itā€™s a highly-competitive honors cohort program that combines business and CS in a way that might be a great fit, and the students get great opportunities. (The curriculum is built on an interdisciplinary core that includes both business and CS, and then you can choose any relevant major, including Finance, CS, whatever.) Student stats are high, but they might overlook your weak freshman year given the strength of your record otherwise. It would also be a great financial value, between the relatively-low sticker price and the merit aid you would get. https://raikes.unl.edu/

Lehigh also has a strong finance major, and a CS+Business Honors Program that might interest you. (And youā€™re probably already aware that USC has a CS+Business degree program too, and would give you half-tuition merit for National Merit.)

Itā€™s always hard to ā€œchanceā€ applications like yours, where there are significant strengths but also a weak point to overlook. Thereā€™s a point of diminishing returns with ā€œshotgunning,ā€ and your current list may put you beyond that point, but in concept I think youā€™re right to have a longer list, to compensate for the unpredictability of the results.

Regardless, you could do a lot worse than ASU Barrett, so even your ā€œworst case scenarioā€ is a good plan, and thereā€™s definitely reason for hope that youā€™ll have additional good options. Good luck!

2 Likes
27

Iā€™ll just throw out that I think one reasonable way to look at these situations is to make sure you have the normal recommended amount of carefully-chosen Likelies and Targets and Reaches assuming your GPA just is what it is. Then assume instead you get a significant break on your GPA, and apply to a new set of carefully-chosen Reaches given that assumption.

So letā€™s say you put together a carefully-chosen list of 2 Likelies, 4 Targets, and 4 Reaches, 10 total, given the assumption your GPA is what it is. Now add 4 more reaches assuming you get a significant break. Thatā€™s 14 total, still a reasonable number if on the high side.

I note I donā€™t think you need any extra Likelies or Targets usually, because basically colleges move down the list and do double duty anyway. Like maybe under the upside assumption, a couple more of your Targets are Likelies or close, and a couple more of your Reaches are Targets or close. So it is really just those ā€œnewā€ Reaches you add that are necessary to capture the upside possibility on that end, as you are already capturing the upside possibility in the middle.

As usual, the crux of the shotgunning issue is that if 4 more new Reaches are good, arenā€™t 14 more even better? And arenā€™t 24 more even better still?

Which is the same old debate, but I do think this sort of modification for cases where you need some sort of relaxation of normal academic standards is a separate issue. I just donā€™t think you need a lot more colleges to do that, once you really work through the logic of what is happening with your existing list as well.

28

Might I suggest you read this AMA, done by someone in the banking field? It is filled with very good information that might help you.

3 Likes
29

Yea I did consider the school and Iā€™m probably going to apply there, but I wasnā€™t really sure if I would pay double the cost of IU Kelley for a school that, from what Iā€™ve seen at least, places far worse in NYC IB although I know that most of the Kelley Statistics are from the IBW.

30

From what I know, isnā€™t that only for the HYPSM schools that place students into firms solely due to the major prestige advantage?

31

I donā€™t think IBIS would be a problem since Iā€™ve consistently placed as a Finalist or won every prestigious National and International High School Finance Competition that there is so being one of the Top 15 students at ASU interested in Investment Banking should not be that difficult.

32

No, it is more that those schools have a lot of extraordinary kids who major in all sorts of things, and firms recruit on campus at those schools because they know a decent number of those extraordinary kids will be interested in such jobs.

I note many kids at those schools want those jobs and yet do not get them. So it canā€™t be solely due to the name of the school or otherwise all those kids would succeed. So it is still an individualized process, but again these firms believe a lot of the individuals they want, and who will want them back, can be found at these schools.

But they also know other schools have such kids. It is just a question of the efficient allocation of limited resources. So if they cannot practically go to those campuses to find such kids, those kids will have to use other channels to find them.

I guarantee you there will be significantly more than 15 students going to ASU with the exact same confidence in themselves. And then it wonā€™t work out for some of them, but they simply donā€™t see it coming at the stage you are in. Indeed, given the sorts of lives they have led to that point, they often find it essentially impossible to imagine it happening to them.

5 Likes
33

I was actually a Finalist in their high school trading competition and had the opportunity to compete for the Final Prize there (a full scholarship) but to be honest, I didnā€™t like the school at all and I would again rather go to IU Kelly or ASU. If I had the full scholarship which I was really close to getting I might have considered applying there.

1 Like
34

Well, in my opinion, most of the students that competitive enough to get into the program likely got into better schools than ASU and decided to go there. I have 2 friends in IBIS and they told me that everyone apart from a very select few are in-state from Arizona and I highly doubt there are 15 kids in my class that would beat me to it. Iā€™ve also heard that IBIS is extremely biased in their application process and a majority of their positions are given due to connections; I have 2 friends in the program that are going to be the seniors recruiting my class.

35

Tysm that is some really good advice that Iā€™ll take into consideration.

36

Yea Iā€™m really interested in the AI + Business Major they offer and thanks a lot I had no idea they have the half-tuition merit. I think I might make USC a higher priority off of that alone because the really high cost was a major turn-off for me. To be honest, the CS component isnā€™t something that I really prioritize a lot, but in schools that offer a combined Business and CS program, Iā€™m going to put those as my 2nd choice instead of something generic like Econ.

37

Arizona is a large state, and every year there are going to be a lot of extraordinary kids who decide to go to ASU for a variety of reasons, including the existence of the very same program that is attracting you to ASU.

7 Likes
38

You may be right, and although I think I have a very high chance of getting into the program from what actual members of the program have told me, I would probably still choose IU Kelley over it if I donā€™t get into a single one of the reaches that I listed.

39

Hereā€™s a question - given IU is cheaper than other reaches and at least on the target ranking higher than some others and youā€™d be a direct admit , would you choose some of those others over IU ?

If not, why apply ? If you would, then of course take the shot.

Have you visited Bloomington ?I ask because you had concerns with SMU after visiting.

So your parents are ok spending an extra quarter million plus (up to $400k) vs what your NM status can get ? Or what in state ASU or U of A Eller (a fine school as well) can provide. Have you had that discussion ? Itā€™s great if they are but you might have that discussion if you havenā€™t.

40

Apart from maybe Emory and Vandy I would choose any of those over IU in a heartbeat

Havenā€™t visited Bloomington but I know its a lot more diverse and less religion-oriented (although Iā€™m starting to think that SMU is only a Christian school in name which shouldnā€™t make it a problem). This is also a reason why Iā€™m choosing not to apply to BYU (which is a target school with really good connections in Goldman Sachs) even though the coach offered to put in a strong word for me due to them being pretty involved in the sport that Iā€™m #1 in nationally in my class.

I have had that discussion and fortunately, finances are not an issue for my family and we can comfortably pay full tuition, however, I donā€™t want to burden them too much and Iā€™m gonna make that decision when my acceptances get back if I get into any of those universities in the first place.

1 Like