How helpful are Arts Portfolios in an application generally?
Definitely EA at Ohio State, you must do so to maximize merit aid there as well as the best chance for admission to their honors program.
When figuring out how to prioritize your application efforts, remember that there may be supplemental applications for large competitive merit aid like Eminence Stamps/Morrill or programs like IBE.
I think all of these are reaches (<20%) based on their extreme single-digit selectivity for out of state, especially for business.
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You may well be right. But depending on where in the midwest the OP is, combined with the first place awards in national and international competitions, plus the rest of the superlatives, I thought the odds might edge over 20%. But whether the OPâs odds are 5% or 21%, the odds are still against an acceptance.
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Which schools would be considered matches for me?
The way our feederish HS does things, what we call Targets are supposed to have 25%+ acceptance rates (for your type of applicant) and your numbers should put you at least into their middle 50%. Your numbers are good anywhere, so that makes it simpleâexcept for the bit about identifying the acceptance rate for your type of applicant. But the good news is if the acceptance rate for your type of applicant is 50%+, that would be a Likely.
OK, then in some cases, like some prominent privates, it is easyâassuming you are not like a recruited athlete or such, there is only one acceptance rate for domestic applicants as they do not admit by school or major or such and do not distinguish in-state versus out-of-state.
In other cases they might admit by subgroup, and they may not publish by subgroup, so you have to do some informed guesswork.
Like for example, I googled it and apparently the overall acceptance rate for direct admit to Kelley (Indiana) was most recently about 35%. Unfortunately I am not sure if OOS affects that, and I didnât find anything in a quick googling. Still, I would guess with your numbers, Kelley would count as a solid Target.
My general impression is that they can help, though usually thatâs more performing arts than visual arts. But if you feel you can submit a good art portfolio, by all means, submit it! It helps to develop a better picture for AOs (no pun intended).
Everyone has different terminology for matches. But I will say that youâre the type of applicant who might have a lot of likely and extremely likely schools and then a lot of lower and low probability schools, simply because you ARE such a strong candidate.
But these are some schools that would be likely to fall into a âmatchâ category:
- U. of Rochester (NY)
- Lehigh (PA )
- U. of Richmond (VA)
- U. of Wisconsin (Madison)
As you can see theyâre really quite different. So the question is, what kind of a college experience are you hoping for? All of the schools I just listed are very good schools, but most students probably would not be equally happy at them.
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I suggest Carnegie Mellon Tepper School of Business as a match/likely.
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I have a heavy arts background. Will that hurt me in applications to schools like Wharton where the focus of admissions is more heavy on the leadership and business side?
Wharton is still part of Penn and generally part of the Liberal Arts and Sciences tradition, so they are still looking for students who have broader interests and talents.
So I think if you package it positively in your application, an arts background could help you stand out from all the Wharton applicants who have done very similar businessy-type ECs to each other.
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I think having interests other than just business is awesome! Penn wants to see students who take advantage of their environment, and imo music shows that.
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Is it a good idea to write a personal statement about music when so much of my activity list is dominated by it?
Which schools would fall in the likely and extremely likely range?
If you look at post #18, you will see which of the schools in your original list that I categorized that way. That said, I am not a professional college counselor, I do not know your school, I am a random person on the internet. So these are my own guesses as to your chances, not some infallible and omniscient font of information.
Youâve asked questions about matches or likelies/extremely likelies, but you havenât given much of a response as to what kind of a school experience youâre interested in. There are thousands of colleges in the U.S., the vast majority of which would be likely or extremely likely admits for you. That doesnât mean theyâre right for you, though. Ditto for matches, as I mentioned in post #27.
Here are some questions that you may want to think about:
You have medium and large schools on your original list. Are you open to smaller colleges? (For instance, many of the top liberal arts colleges are around 2k undergrads.)
- What size classes do you prefer?
- How do you feel about Greek life (fraternities/sororities)?
- How do you feel about significant enthusiasm for intercollegiate sports?
- Do you have preferences with respect to urban/suburban/small town/rural locations?
- Are there states or regions that you prefer (or prefer to avoid)?
- Will politics or religion play any role in your choice (either of school or location)?
- Are there any particular interests outside of your potential major that you would like to pursue?
- Would you be open to a specialist school, like Babson or Bentley?
Getting more information from you about what you want your college experience to be like will help us give more helpful suggestions.
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Iâd prefer medium (fewer than 20 students per teacher) class sizes.
I donât really have a preference (good or bad) for Greek life.
I would love intercollegiate sports, watching sports is one of my favorite hobbies.
I would prefer either urban or suburban.
I donât feel that geography and politics would play a role in my choice.
I want to go to a school with a vibrant music community that actively participates in extracurricular groups and orchestras, and Iâd also want the school to have a strong tech background in the case that I want to double major.
I donât think I would like a specialist school.
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FYI, classes under 20 are considered small classes at the collegiate level. One resource you may want to check out is this aggregator that lists the percentage of classes under 20, between 20-49, and 50+: Class Size and Student-to-Faculty Ratio - College Transitions. Most of the schools youâre looking at will probably be on the list. The Common Data Set (CDS) at each school would have even more detailed info (like classes 0-9, 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, and 50+) as a class with 25 people has a very different feel than a class with 45. The CDS is also the best place to verify and info from an aggregator.
For you to get small classes (sub-20), youâre going to also want to check out what the honors program is like at most of the colleges, as that will be your best bet to get small classes with many of the schools on your list. Sometimes the honors programs are fairly limited, but others are much more expansive and will go deep into the major.
I will say that I would really take a good look at Indiana University because youâll get the intercollegiate sports, an amazing music school, and a very well-reputed business school as well. You may even be a contender for the Wells Scholarship, their full-ride (check to see if your high school needs to nominate you). It would be an extremely likely admit for you.
I will think more on your interests and give more suggestions later on.
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Thank you for the input! Indiana is out-of-state for me so the full ride would be extremely valuable. However, they require that I donât apply an early-binding application, so I guess that leaves Wharton out of the picture if I choose to pursue this.
I wanted to put in a plug for Rice â it has small class sizes, beautiful green campus in an urban area, sports, no Greek life but a residential college experience that is fantastic, and an amazing music school. There are several a cappella groups and an orchestra for non-music majors to join. (My daughter sings with the Rice Chorale, which is for both music and non-music majors â and the director often pulls in accomplished instrumentalists to accompany them.)
The graduate business school is established and respected, although the undergraduate business degree is relatively new. However, they also offer economics, managerial economics, mathematical economic analysis, financial computation and modeling â all as majors. Thereâs an entrepreneurship minor, too. I donât know anything about investment banking, but one of these might work for you.
Itâs a strong STEM-focused school. And despite its stellar academic reputation, itâs a quirky place thatâs friendly and not competitive. Students score internships readily. My daughter is having an amazing experience, but she chose it mostly for fit. (There were certainly cheaper and more practical options, lol.)
The cost will be the biggest sticking point. Rice offers really good need-based aid, but the merit scholarships are hard to get. Cost is $75K+ a year.
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Deleted to avoid misinformation. Oops. 
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To give you a frame of reference with the schools on your list or that have been mentioned here (or on the other thread by @Catcherinthetoast). I also added a few based on what youâve indicated.
This list is sorted by the percentage of classes with more than 50 students (I used the aggregator I linked above). As a caveat, reporting on class size data is imperfect. I suspect that most schools do it the ârightâ way but some schools have been known to game the system by listing every recitation section as a different class in order to improve their numbers. So a student might be in a 290-person lecture 2 days a week but it has 15 recitation sections with fewer than 20 students, and the school will count that as 16 classes (i.e. 6% with 50+ and 94% with less than 20), when most people would really consider it 1 class. That said, this is the best we can do at a distance. (Talk to students at the schools to find out the real experience.)
| School | Classes under 20 | Classes w/20-49 | Classes w/50+ |
|---|---|---|---|
| Trinity (TX) | 68% | 32% | 0% |
| U. of Richmond | 76% | 24% | 0% |
| Wake Forest | 59% | 40% | 1% |
| Holy Cross | 62% | 38% | 1% |
| Fordham | 52% | 48% | 1% |
| Williams | 71% | 27% | 2% |
| Providence | 59% | 39% | 2% |
| Fairfield | 41% | 57% | 2% |
| Amherst | 66% | 31% | 3% |
| Texas Christian | 39% | 56% | 5% |
| Georgetown | 60% | 33% | 7% |
| Northwestern | 78% | 16% | 7% |
| Duke | 71% | 22% | 7% |
| U. of Miami (FL) | 52% | 41% | 7% |
| NYU | 58% | 32% | 9% |
| Yale | 72% | 19% | 9% |
| Lehigh | 45% | 46% | 9% |
| William & Mary | 44% | 48% | 9% |
| U. of Notre Dame | 60% | 31% | 9% |
| Vanderbilt | 61% | 31% | 9% |
| Rice | 66% | 25% | 9% |
| Southern Methodist | 56% | 33% | 11% |
| Stanford | 69% | 20% | 11% |
| Miami (OH) | 35% | 53% | 12% |
| U. of Southern California | 62% | 26% | 12% |
| U. of North Carolina | 44% | 44% | 13% |
| Harvard | 71% | 17% | 13% |
| U. of Rochester | 66% | 22% | 13% |
| Indiana | 37% | 47% | 16% |
| U. of Virginia | 49% | 36% | 16% |
| Ohio State | 40% | 42% | 18% |
| U. of Nebraska | 34% | 47% | 18% |
| UPenn | 59% | 21% | 20% |
| U. of Wisconsin - Madison | 44% | 34% | 23% |
| U. of Texas | 39% | 37% | 24% |
Schools that were not mentioned on this thread or the other thread include Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, U. of Miami, and U. of Notre Dame because they seem as though they might hit a lot of your interests (Duke, Vandy & Notre Dame as low probability, Wake & U. of Miami as lower probability, maybe even a toss-up for Miami). I also added U. of Nebraska which has a surprising number of opportunities related to investment banking (Warren Buffet, anyone?), has the big sports you like, and its Raikes Scholar program combining business and computer science might be of interest, too, since you were hoping for some flexibility. Nebraska would be an extremely likely admit, but Raikes would be more of a âmatchâ type offering.
Most of the highly selective/rejective colleges (admission rates sub-20%), either do not have honors programs and/or you should not expect an invitation (you might, but it would definitely be in the reach category). So class sizes for those schools are likely to look pretty similar to above. At schools like Indiana and Nebraska, youâd be likely to get into the honors programs and thus have smaller class sizes than shown here. And I added in a couple of top liberal arts colleges (Williams & Amherst). Williams is more on the rural side but sports are big there, but theyâre here to show a bit more of what the college landscape is like.
With this data, how important is class size to you? Does it influence what schools remain (or are added) to your list?
With respect to your interest in sports, do you want sports that you can watch on ESPN? Or are these sports that you want to go to the stadium and cheer on your school with lots of others? And do you care if your team is winning, or just that itâs a festive environment and/or is on tv?
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