Chance/Match Me: Junior at competitive public HS with good academics (3.98 UW, 1570 SAT, 1520 PSAT) but mediocre ECs aiming for Ivies and T25 [physics or engineering]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Current HS junior here. I have a very strong foundation in terms of grades and test scores (I am already done with SAT/PSAT testing). However, it is really clear that my ECs are very one-directional, mediocre, and are lacking in many directions.

I mainly want advice on what activities I should work on until I apply next year and some advice on next year. Also I want to know which colleges match me well.

Demographics:

  • Asian Male (2nd Gen)
  • US Citizen
  • Competitive large Public HS, sends 10-15 to Ivies, 40-50 to T25
  • Upper Middle Class, unlikely to get need based aid
  • No legacy anywhere since parents came to US for grad school

Stats

  • GPA: 3.98 UW, 4.43 weighted all course(honors +0.5, AP +1), 4.56 weighted core
  • Class Rank: 10?/500 (school does not report)
  • SAT: 1570 (1530 previously)
  • PSAT: 1520, anticipating making National Merit Finalist next year

Courses:

  • 9 APs currently taken: Physics 1, Precalc, Comp Sci A (all sophomore year, all 5s), Calc BC, Physics C Mech, Language, US History, Micro, Macro (junior), 5 APs in senior year plus Multivariable Calc (AP weighted)
  • Straight A’s except for one A-, should get straight As again this year
  • All possible honors and AP class slots except 1 regular class in freshman and study hall in junior year (to excel in my other APs)
  • Not allowed to take APs freshman year

Intended Major: probably physics or engineering

ECs/Awards

  • Chess (basically the only meaningful one)
    • Founder (from scratch) of top club nationally
    • Individual: National 4th place in (10th) grade section, State HS #2, State Grade tied for #1, top 20 in North Ameican Junior Ch.
    • Team: Led team as captain to National HS #2, national (10th) grade section (same tournament I got 4th in) #2, two time state HS team champion
    • Team grew from about 10 players to 30, club grew from 20 to 80, hosted many school wide events
    • Writer (for 3+ years) for nationally recognized chess magazine
  • STEM (will focus on physics)
    • Top score in school in USA Physics Olympiad (although did not make it soph year, will definitely qualify for USAPHO this year)
    • Engineering summer camp at JHU (decently selective?)
    • Regional (county level) winner in math competition
  • Varsity runner for Cross Country/Track and Field but definitely not recruitable

Additional Personal Info:

  • Significantly introverted, has trouble communicating sometimes. I need to work on it a lot. However, I don’t want to go to a school that is too introverted/keeping to themselves, I want a more balanced school
  • Had some depressive episodes between mid-9th grade to mid-10th grade, did not affect my grades significantly but little to no ecs/activities done in that period (why I don’t have a lot right now)
  • After my depressive episodes, I still have some big problems, and I can’t say that I have totally moved on. For example, I have been very passive, and immense difficulty communicating in a reasonable time. In general, it feels like not much has been done recently in terms of activities.

Next year, I think I want to work less on chess and expand on my physics achievements, specifically by making it to and winning something at USA physics Olympiad. Most importantly, I want some new activities that make me more well-rounded and multi-directional, such as research and writing competitions such as YoungArts regional award.

However, I don’t know how much I can realistically do because my productivity is still quite low. I’m not sure how far I can get in the next year before I write my applications. Can someone help me, thanks!

2

If your parents are anything like some friends of mine in the New York City area, they probably want you to aim for MIT or someplace with which it has a lot of overlap, like Stanford or JHU. That’s all fine and good. No one can predict what your chances are at those places. But then the question becomes whether they are willing to spend the kind of bucks it takes to pay full tuition at someplace outside the small circle of HYPMS?

Ordinarily, I would say look to your state flagship university as a financial and academic safety. But in your case, I wonder if emotionally you might be better suited for a small ivy experience. Someplace like Wesleyan University or Hamilton with proven records in undergraduate physics as well as the kind of relaxed atmosphere and individual attention you clearly desire. Depending upon where you live, you might also look into the Claremont Colleges (Pomona and Harvey Mudd, in particular.) At Wesleyan, you’d be able to opt-out of ordinary dorms as early as Sophomore Year, with enough housing points, and live in neighborhood houses owned by the university. It would be like living “on-campus in off-campus housing” with your own, hand-picked friends.

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Unless your counselor provides a rank you don’t have one.

What does - founded a club that’s top nationally mean ?

Your ECs seem more than fine and are unique such as writing for a chess magazine.

Your stats are fine.

Two things:

  1. Can you get into a top school - yes. But can and will are two different things - no one can ensure admittance at schools that take 8% or less.

  2. Ivy is an athletic league. The schools differ. Cornell is large, Dartmouth is rural, Columbia and Penn (and more) urban.

Find the type of school you’d like. You will be there four years, day after day.

And have that budget talk now with your folks. You are talking $400k or close to - no idea of your major or goals but will it be worth it to them if you can go for 25% of the cost ? These are discussions to have.

Starting looking at schools - urban, rural, small, large. Find the right schools for you, not US News, the WAJ, Payscale, Money, Forbes or whatever ranking you are using - which will give you a lot more than 25 top 25 schools. And if you have a desired major, many tops in a major aren’t tops overall. For example, U of Arizona is a physics powerhouse. And cake admit. Not all the Ivies are necessarily tops in engineering.

My point - find the best home, one where you fit and won’t strangle your family financially, not one others (3rd parties) say is the best. If it’s an Ivy - the fantastic. But if not that’s fantastic too.

Good luck.

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What is “mediocre” about being 4th nationally in chess and your physics achievements?

Lots of students have one dimensional extracurriculars. In contrast, you have high achievement in two extracurriculars.

Do you have any cost constraints, or is $400k affordable to you and your parents?

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You’re clearly very good at doing school and academically couldn’t be more qualified for the schools you’re angling for (but as you probably know, all of them are long shots even for highly qualified students, and so you’ll need to have some more likely options on your list.)

Do you have a better understanding of your depression? Asking because I want so much for you to be able to thrive in college, and setting yourself up for that (with meds/exercise/supports/favorable environment) would make a big difference. You might thrive in a smaller school, for example, or a school with a more collaborative culture.

You don’t mention where you live in the US but I wonder, for example, whether you get enough light in the winter, and if you suspect that your depression is in part seasonal, that might affect which schools you emphasize in your search (e.g. Stanford, Rice, Wash U, Harvey Mudd, or Caltech might be more appealing than, say, CMU or MIT or Carleton or Reed).

What really feeds you right now? Are physics and chess just accomplishments that you are stacking up, or do you geek out about them and feel like you’re in a happy place when you’re thinking about them?

When you think about studying physics, are there research areas that interest you? Are there people whose careers inspire you?

If you’re ultimately angling for physics or engineering grad school, check out this list of schools that produce PhDs. Top Feeders to Ph.D. Programs You’ll notice that half of the top ten physics PhD schools (adjusted for size) are actually liberal arts colleges and only one is an Ivy. Several of the top 20 on this list are much easier to get into than MIT or Stanford (Reed, Rochester, Kenyon, RPI, and New Mexico Tech all accept more than 25% of their applicants.) At least two of those would almost certainly be likely admits for you. RPI and New Mexico Tech also do really well sending students to engineering PhD programs.

Honestly, you sound like you’ll have no trouble reaching for the figurative (or literal, if astro is your jam) stars, even if you don’t bag an acceptance to an Ivy or T25 school. But for it to all come together for you, you’ve gotta figure out the mental health stuff. I’ve seen a lot of really smart guys crash and burn in college because that piece was missing. And be careful of burnout. If physics olympiad doesn’t happen, you’ll still be fine. <3

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Sorry, adding a thought here: this framing (physics as an achievement) had me a wee bit concerned for you, especially when you hit the next point about wanting to look more well-rounded.

a) you don’t have to be well-rounded! But you should find things aside from academics that bring you joy, maybe especially things that you can do with other people.

b) I worry about pushing yourself to rack up more achievements. There’s something undeniably satisfying about a quantifiable outcome and seeing your name on a list of smartest-kids-ever! but my sense is that what happens with physics research is really different (source: married into family with two physics professors; husband was in physics PhD program at Harvard when we met; dated different physics PhD student before). The skills they seem to rely on are really different from, say, studying and test-taking skills. There’s a lot more about creativity and curiosity and being will to try things that don’t necessarily seem like they will work. I wonder if there’s a way to flex those sides of your personality a bit more.

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I think that your ECs are very good. Your grades, test scores, and class rigor are also excellent. I think that you are competitive at any university in the US (and many more outside the US).

The point of ECs: You should be doing what is right for you. What is right for you, what was right for me, what was right for my wife, and what was right for each of my two daughters, are five completely different sets of things. That is entirely okay. Also with ECs, whatever you do, you should do it well.

“Top 20 in North America”( presumably among high school players?) in chess is very impressive. I am humbled.

Welcome to engineering, high tech, computer science, mathematics, and chess, and a few other things. This is common.

Three things come to mind here.

A professor who I know once told me that of his academically strongest and most intelligent students, he thinks that all of them have at some point suffered from some degree of depression. “All” might be a bit of an exaggeration. However, this is common.

The medical profession has gotten pretty good at helping people with depression. Have you talked to a psychologist or a psychiatrist? It is worth taking the time and effort to get checked out by a professional. I know a few people who have suffered from some relatively serious episodes of depression, and gone on to be very successful, and with treatment much happier. One option would be to start with talking with a nurse or guidance counselor at school, but it would be better to at some point get to talk to someone who specializes in this. They really can significantly help the large majority of people with depression.

The third thing that comes to mind is that some very highly ranked universities (MIT and Caltech come to mind) can be very stressful. It is not clear to me that this would be the best environment for you. I think that it is worth thinking about what sort of university or college would be the best fit for you. Visiting a few schools might be a good idea. There are lots of excellent professors and strong students and a wide range of opportunities (such as research and internship opportunities) at a very wide range of universities.

I got my master’s at a university that is highly ranked overall and specifically very good for physics and engineering and for my major, which was a subfield of applied math (it was Stanford). The other students in the same master’s degree program had come from a huge range of undergraduate universities. It was rare to find two people who had attended the same university for their bachelor’s. I similarly once tried to recall the ten smartest and most accomplished people I had ever met. I ended up with 14 people and could not reduce the list, and they had gotten their bachelor’s degrees at 14 different universities (edit: I am sure that if there were more than 14 people on the list, there would have been a very high chance that there would also be more than 14 universities on the list). You really can get an excellent education at a very wide range of colleges and universities.

In order to be happy at specifically MIT or Caltech (or perhaps a few other similarly academically challenging schools, probably including Stanford), you need to work very hard, and the desire to do this should come from inside yourself. To give you one example, in the master’s program at Stanford I was taking five classes at once. One class had a homework assignment with five problems. One of the problems took me six hours on a Saturday, from about 11am to about 5pm (then I went to out to dinner with my girlfriend after). Let’s suppose that you similarly spent six hours on a sunny Saturday working on one single homework problem. How would you feel after you finished it? Would you be thrilled that you could do it, or would you feel that you just wasted a Saturday afternoon? If you would be thrilled, then an academically challenging school might be a good fit.

First read the “applying sideways” blog on the MIT admissions web site. Then participate in whichever ECs you feel are right for you.

Top universities want a well rounded student body. This does not mean that every individual student needs to be well rounded. I am pretty sure that some top universities for example have chess teams that would love to have a strong incoming recruit. However, top universities also have strong physics and engineering departments, and they would like strong students also. I am also pretty sure that MIT and Stanford have lots of students on campus who were very good at chess in high school, and some more who were very good at robot competitions, and lots more who were very good at a wide range of other things. I remember meeting someone at the opening reception for incoming international students at MIT who had won a major sailing competition. Again, do what is right for you, and do not worry about what university admissions wants you to do – they want you to have done what is right for you.

Somehow I doubt that John McEnroe had well rounded ECs before he started at Stanford. He had done what was right for him, which was of course tennis, and tennis, and also tennis (and in his spare time, more tennis).

You have already done and are doing an enormous amount.

I think that you are doing very well, except that you should get some help for your depression. I think that you can just keep up the good work, and look for schools that are a good fit for you. It will take some time for you to figure out what a good fit is. That is okay. You have time to figure this out.

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First of all, there is nothing wrong with excelling in one particular EC - which you have absolutely done with chess. I think that for now, the most important thing for you is to focus on your mental health. Counseling, possibly medical treatment, and trying to figure out what would make you happier. I know you say that you are introverted, but would more fulfilling social interaction make you happier, do you think?

This summer, can you do another program to help you explore whether you want physics or engineering? Even though you don’t have to decide before you apply to college, it may help to focus your college search if you’ve figured out which you want.

Academically, you’re going to be fine, even if you don’t go to a tippy-top school for undergrad. Right now, focus on your mental health, and on exploring to figure out whether you want engineering or physics, so that you can focus your college search to fit your intended field of study.

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