Chance Me: ED CMU or UPenn for CS/ Computer Engineering/ Datascience/ AI [OR resident, 4.0 GPA, 1510 SAT, <$70k]

Chance Me / Match Me
21

That list is at least a hundred long. And today tons of kids find positions on LinkedIn and indeed. A local student I helped is interning at a major tech company (high profile) based in Missouri this summer after working in CS at a local non tech company last summer.

CS, like other fields, is seeing some shortfalls this year - at least some have posted. There was one student from UNC saying they were sending 100 resumes to get a nibble.

Cornell, as an example, shows 71 CS majors got a job from an internet posting. The next category was 38.

Cornell listings had 17 through on campus interviews, 15 via their job fair, and three via alumni.

There are a handful of schools that may over deliver and CMU may be one but covid changed a lot. Companies recruit on line now and while some visit, itā€™s a lot less. Even many visits are online. I know Penn grads excel too but maybe take jobs outside of CS.

If the economy is good and CS regains or retains its mojo, depending on your perspective, the where outside of a handful will still afford your student possibilities. But the MITs, CMUs etc will always lead.

My kid wasnā€™t CS but MECHE at Alabama. He had 19 interviews and 5 offers by xmas. His intern company came to hire him in spring. He turned down Purdue - I thought like you. He told me that parents are wrong and shouldnā€™t buy the magazine hype. Some disagree but I believe heā€™s right when I see the variety of schools companies hire from.

Of course a lot depends where student wants to end up. If heā€™s interested in a Microsoft, an Oregon State or Arizona State or UMN or NC State will work. More niche or boutique companies paying crazy money, maybe not.

Absolutely take your shots but donā€™t believe that only certain schools will work and if he gets into none that it will be a dumpster fire is all Iā€™m really saying. But also make sure he walks onto a campus where he feels he belongs.

Think about this. Your student will be somewhere four years, day after day.

If you can spend $70k, you likely can afford a visit. You want to do your best to ensure, first and foremost, that your student will be happy when they are there. An ED without visiting is not smart because when your student arrives, they might have a bad feeling due to weather, environment, aesthetics or something else.

Good luck.

22

Great Feedback, thank you.
I will encourage my son to look into these as well: Brown, Harvey Mudd, Pomona, and Cal Poly.
I am also looking for feedback on where are the most chances for him to get into given his profile. Application process requires so much time and energy!

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Thank you for the feedback.
19 interviews and 5 offers sounds amazing. So whatā€™s the mantra? Just apply online no matter which college you are in?

OSU is Safety school for my son (since itā€™s in-state), but trying to see anything else fits him.

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Have you and your student visited any of these schools yet? I have a Purdue engineering grad who had a lot of overlap with your studentā€™s list but dropped CMU after visiting. Not the same vibe at all with many of the schools on the list. Penn too doesnā€™t seem to fit with the others.

I also wouldnā€™t recommend an ED application without a visit first.

I also think this is a reachy list. CS is a tough admit even for the most qualified applicants, especially at these public flagships when you are out of state. Be sure your student has a true safety that theyā€™d be happy to attend.

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25

Does OSU fit him ? Has he visited ? Safety and fit are two different things.

Does he like big or small? Urban or rural ? Sun, snow or in between? Does he want access to hiking or skiing ?

It goes on and on.

You need to find out what ā€˜fitsā€™ your son by knowing his desires.

Every college student desires some sort of post grad opportunity and most fulfill it.

So thatā€™s not really a criteria.

Or like @eyemgh showed - the Dean at Stanford may not give kudos to Oregon Stare.

But frankly heā€™s rating their faculty and research and not hiring for jobs. Heā€™s really not relevant to Microsoftā€™s or Amazonā€™s mass recruiting efforts.

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Brownā€™s aggregated CS rankings are a popular alternative to USNWR CS rankings.

(And before anyone says it: yes, all rankings have issues. Iā€™m just pointing OP to another commonly referenced ranking).

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Agree USNWR is not set in stone. I think my son just wanted to start somewhere, and thats what he chose. He is not that particular about the size of school or instate/out of state etc.
He just started building the list, there is more work to do.
Thats the reason for me to seek advice here.

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UC Merced is highly likely, and offers WUE tuition to bring the cost well below $70k.

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29

Different folks have different strategies and thereā€™s likely viability to all. Some target industries. Others specific companies and others location. CMU might have great organizations but what if his goal is an EV company not Tesla. He likely has to find them.

My son sought automotive and actually lived his first summer with two from Ga Tech where they all worked in automotive.

He got his jobs via indeed listings. School had many listings and the career fair many companies of which he talked to Honda but not the one he interned. The rest didnā€™t interest him. If I was a student seeking an internship, they would me. No matter where, that first is most important.

He went back the second summer to a plant closer to home (and for another who questions this, yea I worked for the same parent, not company or location. I was in a different state in sales, not manufacturing, a half decade earlier. And no, I had no access or influence to any individuals in HR or otherwise and he applied for this job on indeed and earned it on his own).

After school, he ended up in Aerospace (heā€™s not an aero engineer) but his big thing was to only apply for leadership rotationals so heā€™s in a role where he does four six month rotations (in different locations). So heā€™s been in Utah, Arizona and now So Cal. He had some that were rotational in one static place, others that moved, and one Iā€™m not sure. He did this at my spouseā€™s behest. She was in one herself. The intern job would have been a staff job had he taken a permanent offer, so a fine job but without exposure to execs, etc. He gets a lot of extras - for example two weeks each quarter is a Kaizen where some of the LDAs meet at a plant and solve a problem. Iā€™m not an engineer so means little to me but he recently presented to the CEO (Fortune 300 company, not sure Iā€™ve ever done that so itā€™s a cool program). Btw his fellow engineers come from schools like Michigan, Purdue, U Wash, CWRU and more but also Akron, W Michigan, Auburn, Buffalo. I think next year is a Ga Tech and CPSLO. CPSLO might be this year. Every company will be different of course.

Kids find jobs many ways - definitely indeed and company websites, but on campus, job fairs, alumni, knowing folks, and likely other ways. I remember one Ga Tech kid years ago spelled hire me in his window - using post it notes. That led to an internship at NCR if I recall correctly.

If your son gets into a school he loves (after visiting), itā€™s great. If itā€™s elite, thatā€™s great.

If not, still express your pride. In the long run, he will determine his success. And yes, CMU might offer a leg up but neighboring Pitt grads will do great as well.

Thatā€™s one perspective anyway.

30

Ultimately this is about your kid and not what others have experienced, so the more you can share about your sons preferences, the more insight we might be able to provide.

Please keep in mind a significant number of kids switch majors so overall fit and eventual optionality may prove important.

Lastly, you mentioned you might be interested in Brown. There are a lot of CC posters who have first hand experience with the school and its somewhat unique culture and curriculum flexibility. To the extent we can share please ask away. Note @eyemgh is an expert on Cal Poly (amongst others) and it sounds like his kid had a great experience.

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All info I shared was in the original post.
This list later was based on what @eyemgh suggested.

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32

In the end your son has to make his list and to ensure itā€™s balanced. Some are ok with 1-2 acceptances and then they can take their shot so be top heavy.

Others canā€™t handle that much rejection and need more balance.

I think the list @eyemgh provided was simply to show schools that US News recognizes differently because they order by has a PhD and doesnā€™t. And those without PhD get forgotten.

So some schools, like a Rose Hulman being another, donā€™t get their due.

In the end, figure out what your student likes. Take him to local schools like Wilamette, Reed, OSU, UO, PSU, U Portland etc to get a feel for the kind of campus, size of school, atmosphere he likes so that you can then identify schools that might fit him vs using a ranking dartboard. No formal tour - just walk around, stop kids and talk to them and see how they are - in addition to the environment.

Not sure where you live in Oregon (assumed Portland), but find a cluster of schools, big, medium, small - urban, suburban, rural, etc

Then youā€™ll have a basis to start picking fit schools.

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33

So it looks like your student built a list that is centered on national universities via USN&WR. I would encourage more emphasis on the environment and setting where they would thrive, once affordability is factored in. Thatā€™s a process that involves some self-knowledge and reflection, and it can be helped by actually visiting campuses of different sizes and in different locations.

Other than a well-regarded CS program, what are the fit criteria?

How far from home, how convenient to transportation?

Urban, suburban or rural?

Weather or climate?

Large research university or smaller school?

Lots of large lectures, or a school more focused on the undergraduate experience with a lot of access to faculty?

A school thatā€™s academically intense, or one more balanced with strong social aspects?

A school with dominant Greek life, none, or something in between?

Does it matter if the school is religiously affiliated?

Does school spirit matter?

Big time collegiate sports?

A politically active or apathetic campus?

What extracurricular activities need to be available?

Is campus diversity a priority?

Does the student have a cultural identity that might benefit from active campus organizations and supports?

Is guaranteed housing important, and if so, for how many years?

Is the quality of campus food important?

Does the availability of study abroad programs matter?

Thatā€™s a start. Not all of these matter to every student. There are other criteria a student might have in mind. The point is, this is a life decision and finding the right place to live, study and socialize for four years requires more than consulting USN&WR.

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34

Thanks for expressing it far better than my attempt. These are the sorts of insights I was suggesting would be helpful.

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35

Weā€™re from Oregon too BTW. My son has a BS/MS in ME from Cal Poly. His last roommate was a CS from HMC and he has multiple CS friends from CP. One of his HS classmates did CS at Pomona. Another, a few years ahead, at Yale.

Cal Poly is very competitive for CS (they admit by major), but they are trying to increase capacity. Next year they expect 6304 CS applications for 202 First Time Freshman (FTF) spots and 785 SE applications for 25 spots (they offer both Software Engineering and Computer Science). That said, your student will be competitive because they use an algorithm for admission. It is not holistic, but primarily based on GPA and rigor.

There are some pointers that help at the margins though. If youā€™d like to know more, or about my sonā€™s experience and career path, feel free to PM me.

Cal Poly will hit your budget even if youā€™re 100% cash pay, as we were.

Otherwise, @Metawampe is spot on. What matters to your son is whatā€™s important. That may be something others might view as trivial, but itā€™s not. Itā€™s important to him.

Good luck! Itā€™s a fun time!

P.S. My son had a HS classmate whose family could only afford Oregon State. He did ME too, but then did a funded MS at MIT. Jensen Huang, the founder of Nvidia, took a similar path, OSU undergrad, Stanford MS.

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36

I could not agree more. You should only apply ED to your absolute dream school where you know what you are getting not just in terms of rankings and academics, but also campus feel, culture, sports & activities, surrounding neighborhood, etc.

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It has been said, but I will say it again. Make sure you visit any schools you plan to apply to ED. We visited both Penn and CMU for different kids and those two schools have very, very different campus feels. Also, consider that aid may be reduced for ED. That is a risk.

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38

I would recommend visiting as many schools on your wish list as possible before applying. Not only will you get a much better feel for the schools than the various guides could ever provide, you will also demonstrate interest and increase your chances of acceptance, especially for safeties and targets that practice yield management. There have been many posts on CC about studentsā€™ opinions of schools drastically changing after tours.

There, the ā€œvisit the schoolā€ horse has officially been beaten to death.

39

While in Chicago I worked with a EE MEP whose son was accepted by CalTech, MIT and UIUC for undergrad engineering. Dad told him he would pay in-state for UIUC, and that if he still wanted MIT he could go there for grad school on his own dime or scholarship.

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This is an excellent post, @purpledaisies. If you can get some answers from your son about these topics and share them with the board, I am sure that people would be happy to provide additional school suggestions.

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