Chance me for Brown(ED) and other schools 3.8 GPA(UW), 34 ACT for Physics Major [IL resident]

Chance Me / Match Me
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My understanding is that there are more than 2,000 professors at UIUC. I am pretty sure that you cannot take 2,000 very smart people, tell them they are in charge, put them in front of less experienced people, and not have at least a few of them eventually develop significant “unfortunate” personality problems. There will be a few bad professors, or professors with bad personalities (not always the same thing) at pretty much any university (and I have run into a couple somewhere along the way). UIUC is still a very good university.

Physics and math are a very good combination. Physicists will have tough math problems to solve from time to time. The nature of these problems might depend upon what sort of physics they are doing.

Economics and math are also a good combination.

And the right combination of classes / majors / minors for you is something that you can figure out after you get to university and have taken a few courses.

Some form of graduate school is entirely possible with any of these majors. Therefore…

Sticking to budget and avoiding debt would be a very good idea.

I would run the NPC (or have parents run it) and make sure that you are okay with the results before applying ED.

How does this combine with applying ED to Brown? If you get into Brown (a reach for everyone, even more of a reach with a 3.8 GPA) then are you okay with your application to Pomona being withdrawn?

You do not need to apply ED at all. If you do not apply ED anywhere, they you will be able to compare offers before you need to decide where to go.

If you do end up wanting to study in any graduate program, it is very normal to change universities between undergrad and graduate programs. For students who did very well as undergraduate students it is very normal to attend a “pretty good, and affordable” undergraduate school and then go on to a graduate program that is very highly ranked for the specific major. You specifically do not need start at a highly ranked undergraduate university to go on to a highly ranked graduate program.

However, if you want to end up in any graduate program, you need to be able to afford to do it.

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NPC for Brown is 93k.

From post 7

I thought the same on UIUC. Racist activities happen even at top schools. And it’s a shame if one bad apple wrecks a place but I can understand someone having experienced that not wanting to re experience the school.

But sadly, from both the outside and inside, it happens at many schools, including Brown.

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Sorry I missed this.

If budget is $60k, and NPC says $93k, then I am concerned that the result will make graduate school quite difficult to afford. This could also make it very difficult to live on the likely salary for someone with a recent bachelor’s degree in physics.

I do not know how you pay off more than $100,000 in debt and pay living expenses on a likely salary for a recent graduate with a bachelor’s degree in physics.

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PhD programs worth attending should be funded, but professional programs (e.g. MD, JD, MBA, etc.) generally are not.

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I’d swap out Williams for Wesleyan. Middletown’s a much more interesting town and Wesleyan’s “Physical Science” departments (primarily, physics and chemistry) receive about 4x as much outside funding for research.

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Yes, I was referencing an engineering Masters which is often what a student with Physics will gravitate to.

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Do you have any knowledge of the athlete/non athlete divide at LACs? There are a few here that do - as this student is wanting a place, if isolated, with a vast social scene.

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What may matter is whether that professor is a regular faculty member in the OP’s likely major(s), versus a visiting professor or one in some other subject. The likelihood of that professor being a problem for the OP if the OP enrolls at UIUC differs in each case.

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NESCAC represents about half the T20 LACs and do have a fair amount of athlete vs. non-athlete division. Not everyone is interested in team sports and yet when it comes to school-wide social events, sports teams are accustomed to working together and organizing (which, btw, makes them highly attractive candidates for climbing the corporate ladder). Some are better at being inclusive than others. I know at Wesleyan, the arts crowd is also pretty good at organizing and show-running and what you get are incredibly busy weekends when there are literally more things going on than there are people to attend them all.

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If you want to be in a town or city in which there is plenty to do, Williams won’t provide that. Nor Kenyon, nor Grinnell. Maybe not even Pomona, though I am less familiar with its environs. LA is like 45 minutes (?) away.

Those schools would give you plenty of 1-on-1 time with profs – especially Williams, which offers tutorials – but they’re in small towns/villages.

Slightly more hopping would be Swat, Haverford, Amherst, and Wesleyan. Mac and Occidental too, maybe even Reed – check out their course catalogs to see whether they offer what you seek. TSBNA mentioned some of these, and I agree. There are LACs located in towns and cities offering things to do, and as LACs you’ll still get plenty of face time with profs.

If you like the res college system at Rice, do look into Yale.

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Slight correction here: LA might be a 45 minute commute away (but there’s a train right in Claremont), but honestly, any given place in LA is at least 45 minutes away from any other place in LA, so that’s not really significant. And Claremont itself is a pretty nice town with lots going on, close to the San Gabriel Mountains and Pasadena as well as LA, so it’s not isolated at all.

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Speaking of 1:1 - and OP is name centric so this won’t work - but the Honors Tutorial College has a Physics and Econ Major (so presumably a minor) and OP can get tons of 1:1 attention, likely more than just about any college in the country, at least during the HTC classes given like the Tutorials at Williams, they are 1:1 or small group format - and they’d crush the budget.

Honors Tutorial Academic Programs | Ohio University

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So I basically really like your original list. I think it was thoughtful and I am confident you could get multiple interesting offers to consider.

Just thinking about Physics, I would add a few places to maybe consider, possibly as substitutes for some of your current list. Totally up to you, but I think worth mentioning. If you are interested, you can look up their Physics Department webpages and see if anything really clicks with you. Obviously also check Net Price Calculators.

As others mentioned, Wesleyan has a very robust natural sciences program in general.

And then Franklin & Marshall is also great for Physics (and actually particularly Astronomy/Astrophysics if that might be of interest).

You already mentioned you are considering Rochester, and I will just note they have a long tradition in Physics.

Then on the more selective end, Carleton and Haverford could both be great for Physics.

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These post was written for another student interested in physics:

The comments emphasize academics and the college suggestions are exclusive to undergraduate-focused schools. Colleges from your current list — Pomona, Williams, Grinnell — appear. If you would like to add an LAC with some attributes similar to those of Brown, look into Wesleyan.

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One college on the OP’s list that isn’t discussed is Amherst. It is my understanding that Amherst won its first Apker Prize in 40 years, three years ago in 2023. Why the long drought? I wonder if it has to do with the possibility that many of their advanced courses are taken at UMass (which, I assume would diminish their chances of being recommended by a faculty member?)

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As an opinion, with an award of such rarity, the only true droughts are from colleges that haven’t produced any recipients. None of the Maine LACs has produced an Apker recipient, for example, nor have colleges like Carleton, Grinnell and Davidson. With two, Amherst is, I believe, more than sufficiently distinguished. And, of historical interest, it is just one of four LACs, along with Hamilton, Reed and Macalester, to have produced a recipient in an entirely open field, with universities and LACs considered together. For deeper research, I’d look into finalists as well.

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Lots of great suggestions here. I agree that dismissing a huge and diverse school, which is very strong for physics (UIUC), because of an incident with one professor may be unwise, but I don’t know the details and don’t want to invalidate your reaction. As for smaller isolated colleges like Kenyon and Grinnell, the OP said in one of the comments they don’t mind a more isolated location if the community is socially active and welcoming, which these two colleges do have. Kenyon, while more known for the humanities, actually has a strong physics program and is on the list of top PhD feeders in physics (relative to its size). If merit aid is necessary, it’s worth keeping those two on the list. Just my two cents.

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Well, not to put too fine a point on it, Wesleyan is the only LAC to have won multiple Apkers competing exclusively against R1 universities. A quirk in the classification system defines it as a “PhD Producing Institution” - which it is (Wesleyan awards about half-a dozen doctorates in Physics a year.)

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(but don’t worry – those six doctoral candidates do not get all of the research spots…)

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You should reconcile these positions. If the former is true (or truer), you may end up unhappy at a rural school. If the latter is, go ahead and keep all the schools you mentioned on your app list: there should be opportunities for mirth on each of these campuses.

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