Thanks! Definitely going to look at these. I’m begining to see that there definitely hasn’t been a focused approach to his school selection. We need to rexamine. So glad I found you guys!
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Thanks so much reading all of this!
<<How was your son’s list developed? In looking at it, I’m unclear about what it is that he wants out of his college experience.>>
He has a definite interest in IR. There’s no doubt about that. The list was initially developed with that in mind. Of course we started in DC with AU, GWU and Georgetown. We then discovered Seton Hall and Drew. The DC schools for obvious reasons and Seton Hall has a school dedicated to Diplomacy and IR. They have regular interactions with the UN. Drew also has what they call a semester at the UN where students meet weekly in Manhattan and meet different people that work at the UN. Beyond these 5 schools, we started adding schools within our state like Rutgers, Rowan, TCNJ, Ramapo. They all have IR programs, but none of them seemed to have the same level of detail within their programs like the DC schools and Drew and Seton Hall. The Ivies are there just because. His thinking is “why not?”. I get it. As far as all the other ones go, I think he just started adding schools to his list for the heck of it. For example UMich. He didn’t like the feel of Rutgers and I have a feeling UMich is the same thing, only colder and snowier. But of course, their football team has a cool uniform and they just won the national champiosnhip. Another one is High Point. He really likes the dorms there. Beyond that, I can’t think of any other reason to go there. His mom and I lean more liberal, so that would be a weird choice. As I mentioned in a previous post, I think that not a lot of thought has been put into his list beyond superficial stuff that doesn’t really matter. I do think the initial 5 I mentioned were put on his list for the right reasons. His mom and I really believe he’ll end up at Seton Hall. It’s really close to home and has everything he wants. He made a comment earlier this year along the lines “Most people want to come here (NYC area) and I’m already here.” We thought that was really mature of him to think like that despite his addition of schools like Umich to his list. He’ll either end up in NY/NJ or in the DC area, we think.
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We just talked about this and here are some answers:
<<What size school does he prefer?>>
He told me he doesn’t really have a preference for school size, but we’ve visited about 15 campuses and we can tell he prefers a smaller suburban campus. For example, we visited Seton Hall and Rutgers. Rutgers was overwhelmingly large. As we understand it, you might have to bus from one class to another. When we were at Seton Hall he said that felt perfect (same with American Uni). Same with Ramapo, TCNJ, Drew.
<<What size classes does he prefer?>>
He prefers a class size like high school, 25-40. I believe this is line with preferring a smaller, mid-size campus/student body size as opposed to a larger one. We also believe he would benefit from a smaller student/faculty ratio as this might keep him more engaged. We realize professors will not babysit him, but it’s nice when they know your name.
<<Are there area(s) of the country that he prefers or prefers to avoid?>>
He want’s nothing to do with any place in the middle of the country. For example, ND, SD, Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa, etc. He prefers, the northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and south (NC, SC, GA, FL, MD, VA). He wouldn’t mind the west coast, but as his parents, we’d like him a bit closer. Not only that, We haven’t seen anything even remotely within our budget in CA. Our SAI is ~60K, but it’s very unlikely we’d go that high.
<<How does he feel about urban/suburban/college town/remote campuses?>>
He really has no preference on this. I will say that he didn’t like the feel of Drexel, open and right in the middle of Philly. He likes a campus that is enclosed, like American or Columbia. They’re in the middle of big cities, but within their own gates for the most part. He liked GWU, but wasn’t crazy about the open campus setting (similar to Drexel, out in the open)
<<How does he feel about the importance of enthusiasm surrounding intercollegiate sports?>>
He’s a big sports fan and would prefer a setting where everybody’s excited about the big game, whether it’s D1, D3 or whatever.
<<How does he feel about Greek life (fraternities/sororities)?>>
Couldn’t care less about this.
<<Are there any other factors (like politics, religion, percentage of a population, etc) that will influence the college decision?>>
Not really. For example, we’re not religious, but Seton Hall is near the top of his list.
<<Are there any additional interests that he’s hoping to pursue while in college?>>
He’s a hockey player and would like to continue to play in college at the ACHA or AAU level. He’s kept his list, however sporadic, to schools that have club hockey. He’s also very interested in Study Abroad and definitely wants to do this.
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Since he’s considering public universities in the south (and likes big sports), Univ of Georgia should get a serious look. UGA is stronger in IR than many of the other public universities on his list.
UVA is strong as well if he’d consider another VA school.
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Thanks for that. I just ran the NPC and it’s about 42K for us. Their CDS says the average non-need-based scholarship is about 3K. Not a ton.
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Your son is right that a lot of kids want to be in the NYC metro area, so if that’s where he is, he definitely recognizes that advantage. I think that Seton Hall’s international relations programs get overlooked too much, so it’s great that he sees how great it is.
It may be that he doesn’t need more schools, that he just needs to cull his list. But I’ve developed a list that includes other possibilities for him to consider. George Mason is much larger than the others, but it’s another school that I think is underrated for foreign affairs and it also has a strong CS department.
I tried to indicate if a school had an ACHA team, but the AAU website was beyond me for figuring out which of these schools had teams. I also added on the Niche grade for athletics, calculated based on student survey responses (so take it for however much you think it’s worth). Of these schools, only Seton Hall and U. of Denver got an “A” for athletics, and I interpret the category as athletic enthusiasm (there’s a different category for student athletes). Some schools had significantly lower scores, but I left them on here as a reference point should the school become of interest later on, or this factor is deemed less important.
Anyway, these are some additional schools, primarily on more intimate campuses that he may want to investigate.
Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
- Seton Hall (NJ): About 6k undergrads, A for athletics
Likely (60-79%)
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College of Charleston (SC): About 10k undergrads but may not be as enclosed of a campus as he may desire, B+ for athletics
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Drew (NJ): About 1500 undergrads, C+ for athletics
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Duquesne (PA ): About 5100 undergrads and offers majors in both international relations as well as international security studies, which includes some cybersecurity coursework. ACHA M1 & M3. B+ for athletics
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George Mason (VA, just outside of D.C.): About 27k undergrads. ACHA M1 & M3. B+ for athletics.
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Miami U. (OH): About 17k undergrads. Many people report that this public ivy feels like a larger William & Mary. ACHA M2 & M3. B+ for athletics.
Toss-Up (40-59%)
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Hobart William Smith: About 1600 undergrads; B+ for athletics
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Lake Forest (IL): About 1700 undergrads; B- for athletics
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St. Lawrence (NY): About 2100 undergrads; B for athletics
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U. of Denver (CO): About 6200 undergrads; ACHA M2. A for athletics.
Lower Probability (20-39%)
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American (D.C.): About 7900 undergrads; B for athletics.
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Dickinson (PA ): About 2100 undergrads; C for athletics
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Fordham (NY): About 10k undergrads; B+ for athletics
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George Washington (D.C.): About 11k undergrads; ACHA M2; B for athletics
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Occidental (CA): About 1900 undergrads; C- for athletics
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Rollins (FL): About 2600 undergrads; B for athletics
Low Probability (less than 20%)
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Brandeis (MA): About 3700 undergrads; C- for athletics
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Kenyon (OH): About 1900 undergrads; B- for athletics
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Lafayette (PA ): About 2700 undergrads; B+ for athletics
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Macalester (MN): About 2200 undergrads; C+ for athletics.
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THANK YOU SO MUCH! I appreciate your effort so much. I will show this to him for sure.
We visited the Geroge Mason campus when we were in the area for AU. We really liked it.
Quick question. As I mentioned, we visited Drew a couple of times including for an open house. They recently contacted him to offer a merit aid pre-read just based on his transcript for the first three years of HS (no extra curriculars, essay, LsOR) The tuition is about 46K for the ucoming year and he was offered 23K per year. I would think this means he would get in if he applied. No?
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If Drew estimated he’d get 23k in merit aid, then I think that it would be an extremely likely admit for him. Congrats on having something that is very nearly in the bag that he likes!
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Thanks!
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I feel like this discussion is well dialed in on the IR aspect, but I’m unclear how the interest in CS fits in. Does he want something blended, where he’d be applying computational skills and data science to poli sci/IR related topics? Does he want IR, but wants to do something like a CS minor and pick up some skills in that area along the way? Is it an either-or thing that might still tip toward CS? Is international cybersecurity an area of interest?
At some schools, if you don’t apply to CS up-front, it can be very hard or impossible to switch into. At others, there’s freedom to explore and adding the CS piece or even switching to it wouldn’t be a big deal. If he wants a program where the two actually interact, that would narrow the field somewhat.
Also, re: his interest in IR and foreign languages… is he primarily interested in continuing with Spanish and focusing on the Spanish-speaking world, or is he looking to diversify in terms of languages, cultures, and study abroad opportunities?
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While I wait for your thoughts on those questions, a few thoughts…
If he wants a full CS program with an international bent on this list, he might look at the International Computer Science program at URI. It’s not an IR program but he could potentially add that piece in. There’s also an International Studies and Diplomacy program, which is a similarly-structured dual-degree program for IR, so there may be a way to combine the two - wouldn’t hurt to look into it.
Dickinson has been mentioned, and I agree that it deserves a closer look. It’s known for its international focus and a strong International Studies major that is flexible in focus but can be IR-heavy if desired. There is also a campuswide Data Science Initiative, and a Data Analytics major that is designed to dovetail with other areas of interest and could make a great double-major with international studies; there’s also a Computer Science major and minor.
I know he isn’t excited about states “in the middle,” but Bloomington, Indiana is a wonderful college town, not that far from the east coast (similar positive attributes to Ann Arbor, and similar travel burden), and it’s really well-known for IR and foreign languages, and has decent CS as well. The blended Cybersecurity & Global Policy program might be of particular interest if that’s the flavor of IR+CS that appeals to him.
St. Louis is two more states into “the middle” from Indiana, but it might be worth pointing out, for a Spanish-focused IR student, that St. Louis U has its own campus in Madrid. The majors that can be completed entirely on the Madrid campus include CS, International Studies, and Poli Sci, among others; and there’s a much longer list that can be done as a 2+2 program - two years in Madrid and two in STL. Probably not what he’s looking for if he’s saying he already likes where he is, but FWIW!
At Penn State, the Poli Sci department offers, in addition to a “vanilla” poli sci major, two other majors that might be of interest: the International Politics major (with a a choice of concentrations including IR, National Security, and International Political Economy), and the Social Data Analytics (“SoDA”) major which is a fantastic blend of CS/data science and Poli Sci and other social sciences. Since both of these programs are in the same department, I’d be optimistic about the potential for drawing from both if desired.
Not sure if any of these would win over either close-to-home or DC-adjacent, but these are some great programs if they happen to hit the sweet spot for his interests.
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While your list is plenty long, another possible thought is U of South Carolina
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Hi Everyone!
Long day today driving from NJ to High Point University to visit their campus on Monday 8-27-24.
On the way down to NC, we stopped to check out Dickinson. Really nice campus and great looking surrounding town. Once we hit VA, we stopped at JMU to check that out. Another great looking campus and surrounding town. My son liked both a lot.
@aquapt Thanks for all this information. I feel like we have a much more focused path forward. Beyond the initial 5 schools we looked at, the others were added “just because”. You guys have given us some great options. Here are the answers to your questions:
<<<I feel like this discussion is well dialed in on the IR aspect, but I’m unclear how the interest in CS fits in. Does he want something blended, where he’d be applying computational skills and data science to poli sci/IR related topics? Does he want IR, but wants to do something like a CS minor and pick up some skills in that area along the way? Is it an either-or thing that might still tip toward CS? Is international cybersecurity an area of interest?>>>
He would like to double major in both IR and CS, but we have seen that a lot of universities don’t allow double majoring across colleges, so his next best option would be to major in IR and minor in CS, which all the colleges on his list allow. He believes (and I agree) that having the CS knowledge, even as a minor, would make him that much more attractive of a candidate for a given role.
<<<At some schools, if you don’t apply to CS up-front, it can be very hard or impossible to switch into. At others, there’s freedom to explore and adding the CS piece or even switching to it wouldn’t be a big deal. If he wants a program where the two actually interact, that would narrow the field somewhat.>>>
Agreed!
<<<Also, re: his interest in IR and foreign languages… is he primarily interested in continuing with Spanish and focusing on the Spanish-speaking world, or is he looking to diversify in terms of languages, cultures, and study abroad opportunities?>>>
He’s a native Spanish speaker, so he wants to learn something else. He’s been on Duolingo for the last year or so teaching himself German. He’s definitely considering formally continuing that in college.
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These all sound like great options. Especially the Penn State SoDA major. His ears perked up when I described that one to him. Penn State was on his list to begin with and I think it will stay there with this new bit of information.
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Thanks again! Dickinson is probably going to make the list as well as George Mason.
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St Louis University looks really ineresting to him and the cost is relatively low compared to the other universities I’ve checked (based on NPC and CDS data). He’s always expressed a desire to travel the world. He watches all these youtubers that visit these exotic places and vlog about it. He would love spending two years in Spain and using that as a hub to travel to other parts of Europe as well as to Africa.
As far as the IR program at SLU, beyond just having that physical presence in Spain, is this just a vanilla IR program or is there anything unique about their offering? This school feels a lot like Seton Hall when I watch videos of campus tours and other info, but Seton Hall’s program is somewhat unique in that have a college dedicated to IR and Diplomacy. I didn’t find anything like this at SLU.
Oh, and they have an ACHA D2 hockey team. 
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IR and Cybersecurity Studies are in the same college at Duquense. Interesting looking school also. Thx!
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Honestly, I don’t have any particular expertise in IR, nor intimate familiarity with either school, to do a head-to-head comparison. My only thought is that the availability of both International Studies and CS on the more intimate Madrid campus could make combining both relatively straightforward, so maybe it would pay off on that end. I looked at Seton Hall’s site, and the conceptual descriptions of the different majors in the School of Diplomacy and IR sound good, but then it’s not obvious where to find specific course offerings or requirements. So… not sure, but hopefully someone will crop up who knows more than I do!
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Thanks for your help! We’ve got some research to do!
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For the SoDA major at Penn State, you need to start at one of the satelite campuses and then transfer to University Park. I think I understand that correctly. I checked a few random majors and it looks like this the case for a lot of them. Can anyone confirm this?
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That doesn’t mean you have to start at a satellite campus; it just means you can.
“Any Penn State Campus” includes UP - you can definitely do all four years there. This page shows a suggested four-year course sequence.
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