Yes, GW is definitely on her list.
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I suspect UVM would be an excellent safety for her.
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- There are many competitive schools that will challenger her academically. She needs to not conflate rank / prestige with competitiveness. A lot of ālesserā schools pedigree wise are loaded with top stat kids - why? They buy them in. Sheā not looking South but thatās what happens at the Alabamas of the world. And these schools - so Bing, Delaware, UVM and more - even other SUNYs - have Honors - for these kids - smaller classes, more writing intenstve, easier access to research, etc.
When I read things like that, it makes me think a student is basing it on perception - and not the reality. And it goes the same way with top schools - many say theyāre not challenged. There was a recent post about Tufts where the student wanted to leave for this reason. And of course, everyone will see things differently - depending on their individual strengths, the prof they have, etc. etc.
So yes, thereās a correlation but not always as strongly as you think. It reminds me in grad school at ASU - we worked our a$$ off. My Cornell roomieās friend was at Wharton - and he did very little except look for jobs - that was priority over class (at that time), etc.
I hope your daughter lands a reach - but every kid, even those who go to Harvard - they need to have that safety and honestly, more time should be put into looking for that school - because for some, they unfortunately, do end up there from overshooting.
One hopes this entire discussion is unnecessary - but Iām a believe in hope for the best, and plan for the alternative. I donāt want to say worst - because I think there are great opportunities at all schools. My kid chose a safety over a top LAC and she is heavily challenged, has great enrichment, and so far two solid internships.
The reality is - many a kid with a policy major will end up in grad school - so you need to look at that too budget wise. You are ok for four years - but are you ok for 6 or 7 years? Or do you need to consider a merit school to make that happen - because itās likely.
So - itās back to - itās great she has identified safeties - but if sheās miserable on the campuses, then you need new ones. If she likes the campuses but the names are beneath her - well thatās a different issue.
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Tried to get her to do something like that. Met resistance and it being about āvibe.ā
Where Iāve discussed rationale, thatās me piecing together comments.
Of course. Itās hard to know which comments to take seriously. Iāve ignored her, āI donāt like brick buildings.ā
I wonder if you should be going x hours in the other direction - so some of the PA liberal arts schools or Maryland or DC.
Not sure where in NY - but they will have cold - but not the cold of Boston, Rochester or Ithaca.
So the Gettysburg, Dickinson, F&M, Juniata typesā¦or even a Susquehanna or Goucher.
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I would tell her to make a list and make sure she likes her safeties because there is a possibility that she will attend one. Let her know that you are happy to research safeties with her if she asks.
After that I would stop the discussion and let her decide. Let her own the process and results.
Brown and UVA are differentā¦vibe wise. That doesnāt mean she canāt like both. Rochester and UConn might be schools (she already has Rochester) to consider.
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Every school on her list is cold, just to slightly different degrees. Many contradictions.
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Why does she dislike SUNYs in general, or likes Bing but not others (either Albany, which she visited, or New Paltz/Geneseo, which are nothing like Albany in size, look, or vibe?) Is it simply because itās an instate option?
Did she actually like UVA before crossing it off due to distance? (Is it distance or ease of access?)
The difficulty is in finding safeties she likes.
Sure, many students in her schoolās class of 2024 (and historically) get into top colleges. Hopefully, she will. But she will need other colleges that she just likes okay - there must be Honors colleges solid enough on campuses she likes enough, or LACs known to be good prep school safeties that she likes enough - she wouldnāt mind getting admitted there and going if all else falls through, as impossible as it sounds right now.
As @twogirls said, Honors colleges could make safeties appealing - even safeties for her would have top students in their Honors College (you can check out the Public University Honors website or book). For instance, Penn State Schreyer has mostly students with Ivy+ ambitions who either didnāt make it but couldn have, or did but couldnāt afford it. (Itās just an example because she will likely find it too far and way too big.) Penn State for poli sci, IR, SODAā¦ is a safety. Paterno Fellows is also a safety. (Schreyer isnt.)
You could check out Honors specifically, not just the university, at UDel and UVT for instance. Honors colleges tend to be different.
Also, does she like any - comparing Hobart&WS, Goucher, and Ithaca (3 safeties, all very different)?
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I really canāt read her mind. It may be that none of her friends are going to SUNY. Iām sure in part, itās that the campuses arenāt very pretty and they lack the resources of many of the private school. Their course offerings and majors are more ābasicāā¦
She didnāt check every school, but the SUNYs she looked at didnāt have any undergraduate majors she liked. (no Public Policy, no American studiesā¦ just Political Science). She looked over course catalogs and didnāt care for them.
If I had to break down the requirementsā¦ and this isnāt necessarily accurateā¦
But preference to be within 3-4 hours of the lower Hudson valley, no more than 5-6 hours.
Prefer schools with undergraduate student bodies of 2500-10,000 preferred. 2,000-20,000 at the extreme.
A very pretty campus.
Ambitious academic minded students, preferably no or limited Greek system.
Undergraduate majors in Public Policy and/or American studies. A wide variety of other small interesting classes.
school with a Jewish presence (at least 10% or so).
Not New York City, but prefer not to be middle of no where. (1 of the dings against Wesleyan was middle of nowhere).
None of the schools that she actually likes even fit the bill perfectly. But from what I can gather, those are the basics.
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Itās too bad her ādistanceā is so close to home because there are great schools with large Jewish populations all over (my daughter is at College of Charleston which has a policy option in both Poli Sci and Urban Studies) and is about 10% Jewish. And you noted IU b4 - big Jewish population as would Pitt - all short flights.
Oh well - thereās still many in the NE with driving distance with lots of Jewish populations. Iām interested to see and I donāt think you should go but if ever driving by - how Delaware seems for her.
Many schools have interdisciplinary majors or one can be made; some have PPE; and others will be poli sci but you can choose courses in poli sci to give her what she wants - as you know many say - take 9 credits from this list type of thing. And some of those courses will be in other disciplines.
What is her desired career outcome?
If the nomenclature of the policy major is bugging her thatās an easy fix.
Degrees in public policy are fancy marketing terms for what is available at virtually every decent sized college in America. If she were at Oxford, it would be PPE (and in fact, there are kids in the US who donāt understand why they canāt study PPE here. They can. It has a different name).
Perhaps your D would feel comfortable at colleges where double majoring, major/minor, flexible requirements are more of a āthingā? Some combination of sociology, poli sci, econ, philosophy and either urban planning or history, depending on which specific areas within policy she falls in love with? I know kids doing poli sci/nutritional science which sounds weird until you realize how much money is spent on USDA, FDA, Department of Agriculture/farm subsidies, etc.
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Not the nomenclature. The actual course offerings.
Think Delaware is already on her list with UMass and Bing. She hasnāt toured it or evaluated it. But her counselor put it in.
She actually has about 30 schools on her list overall, so she does have to cut about 10.
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She doesnāt have to like Wesleyan, but itās definitely not in the middle of nowhere!
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Perceptions are so funny. Personally- I love Ithaca. My kids all thought it was in the middle of nowhere and nixed Cornell for that reason. (I thought it had a nice bustle/vibe). Teenagers, amirite?
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Nearest city is Hartford, and thatās an hour away. To her, thatās middle of nowhere.
It is kinda middle of nowhere. But Ithaca is a small city itself, and Cornell is its own city.
Hartford is 20 minutes away, not an hour. New Haven (where thereās arguably more going on for college students) is 35 minutes away. Thereās easily accessible transportation to NYC (and Boston, though that takes a little longer). Lots of neighboring towns with restaurants, theaters, parks, etc. Iāve lived in south-central Connecticut. Itās definitely not remote. Your D likes Vassar (with good reason!) ā but Poughkeepsie is smaller than Middletown, and much farther from a true big city.
Your daughter can use any criteria she wants to add or eliminate schools, but the criteria sheās using seem a little haphazard and arbitrary, which seems to result in a lot more colleges getting crossed off the list than added on.
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Donāt disagree there. As I said much earlier, she largely is just citing āvibeā without much coherence I can see.
My guess is she likes reachy schools and is saying āvibe.ā
If she likes the vibe of UVA (dismissed it due to distance) then she clearly likes state schools. Pick 2 as safeties. Delawareās campus is very nice and I am happy itās on the list.
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We had a similar thread not long ago. Similar stats. High expectations. Legacy parents; the whole nine yards. Over 400 posts mostly playing a game of ātelephoneā where the parent would relay the childās hard to interpret likes and dislikes with the replies pinging off them into all directions. Based on my experience with that thread, it will all boil down to four colleges, none of which will be her first choices, but will somehow magically come into their own once sheās actually experienced multiple rejections.
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