@MYOS1634 I absolutely loathe the left and despise socialism, so no I wouldn’t be a covert supporter of Corbyn.
Yes and private loans would cover all of my remaining costs.
I do believe that the debt is manageable since the mean starting salary at most top universities is around $55k to $65k. I’m mostly interested in going to grad school and potentially have a +$200,000 salary before I reach the age of 30. Reastically it would be around $100k to $150k pay at that stage.
I never stated the universities you recommended were bad but in general a great academic reputation would provide you with better graduate prospects and opportunities. I want to go to a targeted university, a major feeder school and benefit from networks with alumni aswell as other students.
Finally, I do aim on graduating with high honors atleast Magna if not Summa. I would love to be inducted into the Phi bet kappa society, it won’t be easy but it is my ambitious plan for university. In the UK we don’t have Latin honors we have like a First and 2:1 honors which is almost compulsory to pass, the majority of students get 2:1s and around 20% to 30% get a First. Most Latin honors are given in terms of percentile and have gpa cutoffs. Hopefully the scoring curves for test aren’t brutal, I’ve read about students confusing others to get a leg up in a blog by a NYU graduate.
That is way too much money to borrow. And asking your US relatives to take the risk of consigning for you is pretty rotten – if you flake out, get ill, or die, then they are stuck with huge debts. You don’t seem to have a head for business to me if you think this is a good idea…
@intparent I do understand your point but if I apply for need based aid instead my chances go down. I can’t just beg the universities for money? However, I’m confident I could conquer this potential debt and the overall benefits would outweigh the risks in the long run. Besides if my relatives said they are fine with consigning then I can take their word for it.
You can’t assume they really do understand. Many people do not know that private student loan debt is not dischargable in bankruptcy, nor that if you die they are still stuck with the debt. No one (not the US colleges nor your relatives) owe you a high cost education. Get an education you can afford for undergrad, whether that is in the US or in your own country. You say you want an MBA, and that will also likely require large loans. Coming out of undergrad with no debt is going to be a lot better in the long run. Great grades, a high GMAT score, and a couple years of work experience will set you up well for admission to a good MBA program.
@intparent As I said the benefits outweighs the risks in the long run. I would love to graduate with no debt but life doesn’t always work out the way you want it to. I’m confident that I will manage this debt and repay it. Graduate schools have an inherent bias when it comes to selecting student from schools with big reputations.
The first words out of my guidance counselor’s mouth when uninformed, 15-year-old me named a few schools to aim for (a list including several of the usual suspects):
“Nobody cares where you go for undergrad. It’s the graduate school you attend that will make all the difference.”
There’s little reason to go into $120,000 worth of debt for an undergraduate degree - which, I might add, could hinder your ability to borrow large sums for grad school, the degree that actually will affect your earning potential - considering a UCLA diploma won’t have much effect on your job prospects relative to one from W&L, Gettysburg, etc.
There was a poster some time ago who described a friend’s arc: University of Colorado, Boulder -->4.0 GPA --> Harvard Law. No grad school is going to reject you because you attended one of the schools MYOS1634 named.
The problem with your thinking is that you equate “big reputation” with “what I’ve heard of”.
I agree that the best fit and the best value are important (ie., the cheapest school isn’t always the best for you), but you need to keep your debt within reasonable parameters.
If you’re interested in MBA programs’ admission odds, McKenna is more likely to give you financial aid and its reputation is at least as good as UCLA’s. Vanderbilt is another strong contender from your list.
Rice and URochester are obviously top notch for science.
What’s your goal? MD/PHD? Research? I saw you mention MBA and finance, too?
Note that the odds of making 65K right out of college without an engineering degree are quite low.
If your goal is neuroscience for medicine, UCLA would actually be a terrible choice. The med school situation in California is quite difficult even for CA residents with stellar applications.
For neuroscience, the Huck Institute is quite good.
If you want a college that’s affordable and excellent for finance recruiting, look into Baruch.
I know you feel you can pay back 120K in loans but you’re asking relatives to shoulder the responsibility. It’s pretty rotten of you because if for any reason your plan goes awry, THEY have to pay back those loans. Unless the relatives themselves would lend the money off their own funds, in which case the situation is different. But through a bank - really NOT a good idea.
Do you know your EFC?
It’s quite possible you wouldn’t qualify for financial aid.
What’s your parents’ budget? Can you check with them?
For all you know they do have a quarter million dollars in a college fund for you, and then UCLA becomes possible.
I get the impression that you don’t much care if you put your US relatives at risk financially. It is one thing to be dumb enough to take out what will likely be well over $200,000 in loans for undergrad and grad school – but it is an entirely different thing to drag others into it for the sake of what I am guessing is your Wall Street dream.
@intparent, you are arguing with a 17 or 18 year old from a privileged background, whose family appears ready to pay for or subsidize whatever s/he wants to do. The OP is clearly smart and achievement (& prestige) oriented, and if the adults in the OP’s life are willing to sign for these loans (which seems to be more of an assumption than a certainty), well, they are adults.
Pointing out the harsh realities of life with (say) $300,000 of debt ($200K undergrad + $100K MBA) won’t help: the OP can do the math and work out what repayments will look like as against take-home pay, but the reality is just too far away (which is part of why the US has the 24 rule). Pointing out the mistaken assumptions (such as how prestige of undergrad affects post-grad acceptances) also won’t get you anywhere, even if you point out that what s/he knows of academic reputations and what grad schools know are very different. The bottom line is that the OP just isn’t there yet.
I’ve seen you give a lot of great advice, but my suggestion here is that you leave the OP to it. To paraphrase a compatriot of the OP’s, the OP ‘is not for turning’.
@collegemom3717 I think there’s a misunderstanding here I never stated that I want an MBA or career on Wall Street. Also I’m not elitist at all I just don’t think simply choosing a university for financial reasons is a good idea. I obviously won’t like to be in a quarter or half a million dollars in debt. However, I can’t simply cut them out either.
Why not? Millions of US students do it all the time. Most US students don’t get to go to the college they most would like to attend, and cost is the most common reason. Most US parents can’t or won’t borrow the money to pay for the most expensive schools. Many of those students still go on to grad school and productive lives.
@collegemom3717, if this student came from a truly privileged background, he would be full pay without loans. And likely he has no real idea what risk he is putting his US family members financially. And all too often, neither do adults when they sign on for private loans. Now… his relatives have to qualify for the loans every year, too. It is possible that they will not be able to qualify for all four years, even if they are willing.
Also… because they offer Larin honors is a TERRIBLE reason to pay extra to attend a US university.
OP, what is your expected course of study? Sorry, I thought it was business. It makes a difference in this discussion.
Also, where did you get your stats on Wes and the FA admission rate? That is not information revealed in the Common Data set, which is generally the most thorough and reliable source of data. Have you run the net price calculators for these schools to see what your cost of attendance might be if you apply for aid? Some of your schools are need blind in admissions, so applying for aid would not affect your application at all. Rice, Vanderbilt, URichmond are all need blind. You also can apply for aid at just some of your schools. Also, you probably still have a better shot than a student who needs a full ride at the schools that are non need blind – if you need $25,000 and someone else needs $55,000, you may be the student who gets in.
Have you considered schools that might give you large scholarships for your stats, and allow you to graduate debt free? Alabama comes to mind.
Op: You did mention a salary of 55K+ right out of college, grad school for a salary of potentially 200K before age 30. Considering most students fresh out of college have a job that makes 35-40K, it’s a safe assumption you plan on being in a lucrative field.
You also mentioned neuroscience, which is typically interesting to premeds or future MD/PHD students, but neither option meshes with the salary levels you quoted for your post-college career nor your post graduate career.
If what you like about UCLA is LA, there are lots of other colleges (the Claremonts, Occidental, Chapman, LMU-LA - although Occidental is likely too liberal for you, and LMU LA too Catholic.)
OP, you know that as a US citizen, you should be able to take out federal loans of your own, right? But you need to fill out FAFSA to do so. (I am not clear on whether you need to check the FA boxes for your colleges or not, can someone else help out with that? I feel like they have some say in whether what you get is subsidized or unsubsidized, maybe? But honestly don’t know, as we never tried to do just the loans without asking for aid.).
Anyway, the federal loans ARE in your name. The amounts you can take out are:
$5,500 freshman year
$6,500 sophomore year
$7,500 junior & senior year
So the total isn’t too onerous, they are in your name alone, AND these loans have more consumer protections if you become permanently disabled or die.
@intparent Are these federal loans better than private loans in terms of interest rates? anyway the amount I could take from federal loans wouldn’t be enough to cover all the remaining costs lets say my parents contribute around $35,000 to $40,000(they pay a similar amount for my school) and I get a $5,500 loan still have around $20,000 to $25,000 left to pay for, hence I would mostly use private loans.
@MYOS1634 A lot of top universities state that the average starting salary is around $55k to $65k for graduates. Also there are many careers where it is possible to reach $150,000 to $200,000 before the age of 30, it’s isn’t simply a career in finances that could give you those potential earnings.
The rates are fixed, but change periodically depending on when the loan is issued. The current rate is 4.29%. Private loans will start accruing interest as soon as you take the money (some of the federal ones do, dime don’t). Some private lenders also want payments starting immediately, not waiting until you graduate. There are also fees associated with taking out some private loans. Are your family members going to make your loan payments and pay the up front loan fees while you are in college? How will you make payments while you are in grad school? You are likely to have loan payments of over $1,000 per month during that period.
I can see you are not going to listen to the logic that is is wildly foolish to borrow this amount of money, and that it is a big risk for your family members, not just you. You are chasing prestige (foolishly, brlieve me) at the expense of your financial future and your family members’ as well. I am bowing out of this discussion.
@intparent interest rates for private loans could be lower and a lot of private lenders would wait until you graduate. Some lenders have Loan forgiveness in the event of a student’s death or permanent and total disability. I just have to find the best lender for me and a cosigner would help me get the best interest rates. I can even get cosigner release after a year so I just have to do a lot of research on lenders and find the best terms of repayment for myself and my family.
I want to go to the best college for me and not the most affordable college. I want to have the best opportunities and graduate prospects at university and sometimes in order to have that you have to get into debt. I mean this isn’t so bad, medical students, law students and even MBA students use loans to cover their fees and end up in debt. Does this mean you shouldn’t go to medical school or law school? because of potential debt?
Don’t know if this will assuage your fears, OP, but here are some interesting statistics regarding science doctorates and their baccalaureate institutes:
They’re trying to make you see realistically. Cost. DOES. MATTER. It is not worth it to go into years of debt to go to a certain grad school. Go to a smaller LAC, major in whatever with substantial aid, graduate with a high GPA and do so happily, and get into a grad school with minimal debt.