<p>But that’s exactly it. Not everyone who has means would insensitively suggest an expensive outing, not realizing that others couldn’t afford it-- many people would realize that they have options not available to others and not rub it in everyone else’s face. But the clueless people who do obliviously make expensive suggestions are able to do so because of their privilege. Emeraldkity’s daughter’s friend SHOULD have checked his privilege and realized that he had options she did not have.</p>
<p>Or, EK’s daughter could nicely tell him that her parents couldn’t afford it either. No thanks. Are people really not allowed to talk about options now for fear someone, somewhere doesn’t have the same choices? That seems a little limiting. And silly. How could there be any discussion about private schools on CC? After all, some students can’t afford them. They know this and guess what? It’s not embarrassing. It’s a fact. </p>
<p>What if somebody said, “Tal, the comment you just made suggests that you may not understand that some people are unable to do what you suggest, because they are poor, or because they face bias based on race or sex in the situation we are discussing. It may be that because you are a white male from a financially well-off family, that you have never had direct personal experience of the situation we are discussing, and as a result, it might be good if you could take some time to hear the perspectives of those who have had those personal experiences. Of course, if you have, in fact, had those experiences, perhaps you could flesh our your argument with your own personal observations.”</p>
<p>Would that be better than “check your privilege?”</p>
<p>Well, why wouldn’t the appropriate response be: my parents can’t afford it either; or won’t pay for it. Why respond with a loaded phrase that implies he’s clueless? What does that accomplish other than offend him?</p>
<p>I gathered that the issue with EK’s daughter was the guy persistently suggesting the expensive trips. He apparently wasn’t getting the message that she couldn’t afford them.</p>
<p>Even the guy mentioned above who kindly always showed a good example and suggested less expensive options might have occasionally taken one of his friends aside and said, privately, “Dude, I know you mean well, but Joe can’t afford to go out to eat, except for really inexpensive places–so why don’t you stop always suggesting expensive places when he’s part of the group? Thanks.”</p>
<p>Hunt,</p>
<p>We have been suggesting that response all along. Not sure how you missed it. </p>
<p>It occurred to me that the reason some might use “check your privilege” rather than a more courteous response, is they do not want to articulate what they are thinking: that this guy’s views are limited by his race and he has never thought outside the box of his white world. And that is a bigoted assumption. </p>
<p>Basically, it’s group think. That is always fraught with problems imho. </p>
<p>I’ve been suggesting all along that if anybody said what I just outlined above, Fortgang would hear “check your privilege.” As I said early on, I think he’s a phony–based on his own words.</p>
<p>"Even the guy mentioned above who kindly always showed a good example and suggested less expensive options might have occasionally taken one of his friends aside and said, privately, “Dude, I know you mean well, but Joe can’t afford to go out to eat, except for really inexpensive places–so why don’t you stop always suggesting expensive places when he’s part of the group? Thanks.” </p>
<p>Sure. That’s the way to do it.</p>
<p>She did tell him her parents couldnt afford it, with a smile.
But he didnt believe her, apparently, and kept pushing.</p>
<p>"She did tell him her parents couldnt afford it, with a smile.
But he didnt believe her, apparently, and kept pushing. "</p>
<p>But that’s not “because of his privilege,” because other privileged people would be sensitive, or would get the hint. The guy was a jerk. No law against that.</p>
<p>This is my point about Fortgang–we don’t know who said what to him, and when. It may be that a friend took him aside and said, “Dude, I know you’re conservative and all that, but all this stuff you keep saying about affirmative action, and how people should just work hard like you did, suggests that you need to check whether your attitude is just based on your own personal privilege or not.” Or, maybe snooty liberals really do shoot him down by saying “check your privilege” and then running away. Anything is possible.</p>
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</p>
<p>PG,</p>
<p>Actually, that statement is probably meant as a reminder that some students admitted to Women’s colleges may be transgender students and a byproduct of recent(within the last decade) heated controversies over their admission from some alum/student groups and anger from others at their exclusion. </p>
<p>The heated controversy at Smith over this very issue made the national papers and was closely watched by other women’s colleges and their alum/student groups. </p>
<p>I believe many Women’s Colleges now have policies of admitting transgender students who initially were identified/presented as female as a result of those heated controversies. </p>
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<p>Actually, the comments were likely just as prompted, if not possibly moreso by his higher SES status. </p>
<p>Especially considering he mentioned this issue was prompted by being compared with Tea Partiers by discussions of “government debt” and in high likelihood social spending*, he grew up in a well-off NYC suburban area, and Ucbalumnus found he omitted the fact his father’s an investment banker. </p>
<ul>
<li>One thing about most discussions about government debt/spending from political fellow travelers is that it almost always focuses heavily/exclusively on social spending…especially those they perceive as being for racial minorities and/or the lowest SES strata.<br></li>
</ul>
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</p>
<p>Hunt,</p>
<p>Agreed. I’m ROTFLOLing at imagining how he’d have fared if he was bold/foolhardy enough to try publishing that same article at my LAC during my undergrad years. </p>
<p>Even being told to shut up would have been exceedingly polite compared with the likely responses he would have gotten.</p>
<p>It would be extremely helpful if Fortgang would disclose what exactly he said that prompted the response, other than that it was comments about welfare and the national debt. </p>
<p>The fact that there has been no published commentary by those who actually said the phrase to him, (which I find impossible to believe would not have gotten news coverage if they came forward), may say either that it actually never happened, or it may say that the phrase was used inappropriately and the sayers don’t want to have to defend it. I tend to lean toward the latter, giving Fortgang the benefit of the doubt that he is not a bald-faced liar, and based on what I have heard about the prevalence of micro-aggressors on liberal college campuses.</p>
<p>I went to grad school near Toronto. After a month or so some other students came to me and said “hey you want to come with us to London for the weekend”?". I gulped and said, well sure, maybe, how much will it cost, you got cheap tickets? They said, it’s OK you can come in our car, it will be about $10 for gas. My vision of London, and theirs of London, Ontario, was a little different. </p>
<p>People are just more polite in Canada.</p>
<p>@Hunt </p>
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<p>“Hey ladies, come join the XYZ Club to find out what we have to offer” only to have it hijacked by humorless people that need to remind us that not everyone at a women’s college fully identifies as female (which begs the question why they are still at a women’s college, but I digress).</p>
<p>PG,</p>
<p>Actually, that statement is probably meant as a reminder that some students admitted to Women’s colleges may be transgender students and a byproduct of recent(within the last decade) heated controversies over their admission from some alum/student groups and anger from others at their exclusion."</p>
<p>Well, duh, cobrat. The statement “remember that not all of us fully identify as female” was meant as a reminder that some are transgender. What’s your point?</p>