I have a friend whose D does the advanced cheer stuff. She is now at college doing it. At the top level, it requires a lot of skill. Her D is petite, so she is the one on the top of the pyramid. If the girls below are not well trained and competent, she could wind up being hurt very badly. I don’t know if this particular team does that type of activity, but it is something to be concerned about.
IMHO, an activity that requires physical ability, where one person has to be reliant on the others for her safety, shouldn’t be open to just anyone.
I wonder what would happen at this school if parents complained that their kids weren’t on the baseball, basketball, track and field or lacrosse/soccer teams even if they have no skills and can’t play.
On another note, what is this parent going to do when this child is rejected from a college or not hired for an internship or a job?
I’ve been on both sides of a “no cut” experience with my two younger kiddos and I can honestly say that no one benefits from no cut sports.
Imagine a track team with over 130 kids on it in 7th-8th grade. It’s unwieldly. Coaches stretched thin and unable to provide individualized coaching. Kids lined up to get a chance to try the long jump, or high jump, or even to try out hurdles. My son was lousy at every event he tried, but there was no real opportunity to get better. The coaches don’t have the time to give him one-on-one help, and he was lucky to get a few times to throw the discus at a practice. My daughter, on the other hand, was fastest at the 100, 200, and 400 and 100 hurdles during time trials at the beginning of the season. She was 2nd or 3rd in long jump (without any coaching or anyone showing her how to figure out where to start) and apparently did well enough trying to figure out how to do high jump that the high jump/long jump coach wanted her there. But, there were over 130 other kids who were also on that team so she was only allowed to do 3 events. (State rules allow for 3 individual events + relay teams, but school counts relay teams in the three.) She was frustrated all season and complained that she was bored at practice. I won’t even get into the length of the meets…
Make the cuts. Let the kids who don’t make the team find something else they’re good at, and give the kids who are good the opportunity to get better. No need to just encourage mediocrity across the board.
Not true. I am a current high school sophomore, and there were many intelligent students who were not accepted into NHS. Suprisingly, it was a lot of the top students. The top students at my school tend to have almost no extracurricular involvement, and if they do, it is something generic like being a member in Student Council or playing JV tennis. There is a cap at my school for how many students get in.
I can already see kids joining whatever no cut activity, simply to put it on their college application. CC has made me cynical after seeing kids trying to game the system in a variety of ways. 8-|
We don’t tell kids who are bad at math to drop it and find something else they are good at. Public schools are about training and education for all. If you want high level competition, there are plenty of private venues for that. So yes, my kid may have to put up with yours in math class and yours has to suffer with mine in track. Hopefully they are both learning something, even in their weak areas.
So a kid who could reap the numerous benefits of being part of a team and participating in a sport s/he enjoys isn’t permitted to because it may prevent some other kid from getting a trophy? I thought the purpose of high school clubs – athletics, musicals, cheerleading, chorus, etc. – was to provide enrichment.
In our area, high school sports has changed from a recreational activity that the average kid from an average or low income family had a chance of participating in to one that’s only accessible to families who can afford travel teams and private coaching. If you don’t know, or can’t afford, to pay for sports, music classes, singing lessons, dance lessons, or cheerleading squads starting as young as pre-K, your kid’s at a huge disadvantage when competing for a spot on a high school team, play, or cheer squad. Our high school teams are full of the kids who’ve been paying to play since they were 6. High school ECs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to pay for 6-8 years of private training.
My kids’ big MS did it right. There were a few no cut sports at each grade level, giving kids a chance to learn new sports, get exercise, be part of a team. I say “no cut,” there were no cuts for skills, there were cuts for grades and bad behavior. Kids would want to stay on the team and so would work harder.
I think there should be some no cut options but most teams should have cuts.
I am on the fence. I live in Texas and have a cheerleader with all star cheer type skills, who is co-captain of her HS varsity team with 14 cheerleaders, there is also a JV team with 16. There are tryouts and a minimum score that must be attained to make the squad. The team is judged by 3rd party all star cheer coaches (and I mean waaay 3rd party, like from an entirely different town). There is a separate tryout process a bit later in the season for the competition team that is entirely based on tumble and stunt ability that is judged by the head cheer coach. here some people don’t make the team. When you are competing against other cheerleaders with level 4&5 all star skills you simply can’t just walk in and expect to make the team. This is a judging system that was put in place because of situations just like this one with angry parents complaining.
I do feel that there is a place in sideline cheer for more variety of skill levels and it could be more inclusive. However there is an element of safety that needs to be considered when it comes to competitive cheerleading and you either have the necessary skill to make the team or you don’t. (Not that you can’t learn, but it is a process that generally can’t be learned in one season).
What is most bothersome about this case, to me, is the acquiescence to parental demands, the disregard of the talent and skills of the cheerleaders who made the varsity team and the assumption by the administration/atheletic director/public that cheerleading today is what it was in the 1950s, a popularity beauty pageant of brainless girls waving pompoms on the sidelines. These outdated stereotypes are dangerous. I am sure there are some of you rolling your eyes, but in many states cheerleading is a competitive skill driven sport (NJ being one of them). I have personally seen cheerleaders asked to practice without the appropriate safety equipment, priority given for adequate gym space to more traditional sports in the weeks before a major cheer competition and perhaps the most disturbing thing of all, assuming that any one of the teachers at the school has the ability to coach/train a competitive cheer squad (by competitive I mean a team that tumbles & stunts) these teacher coaches often lack even basic cheer coach certification (Yes there are tests that require in-person demonstratable skills in order to be certified).
Do I think the cheerleaders on the team crying that their skills are being “thrown out the window” are being a tad over dramatic? Yeah (I am pretty sure that kid is on an all star team where she can perform her skills at a appropriate level) But, I do think the school needs to recognize that they can’t have it both ways; you can’t be all inclusive and expect to have a competitive team too, especially if other schools surrounding you are fielding teams with a cut policy. in the big picture there needs to be some standardization in HS cheerleading. We are either going to follow the all star competitive model or its going to be an all inclusive spirit squad based on the traditional notion of cheerleading. Once you combine the two and introduce all star tumbling and stunting, there are safety issues at play. You can’t take a novice cheerleader and put them on a team of experienced varsity/all star cheerleaders and expect it to be safe physically or emotionally.
I can see that cheerleading is a little different in that there is plenty of space but when you start talking about sports practice space/time becomes an issue.
Think about a sport like swimming. There are only so many lanes in a pool and you can only pack so many swimmers in one lane. My son’s school is fortunate in that they have a 12 lane pool and as a result can operate with essentially no cuts (although they reserve the right to cut). Most schools are not that lucky and have 8 or often times 6 lane pools and have no choice but to cut. Putting more than about 6 swimmers in a lane is not feasible so if more than 50 kids show up on day 1 there would have to be cuts. The only other option is to have multiple practice times/teams which runs into problems with pool time and coaches time. There are only so many hours in a day and the typical swim practice is 2.5+ hours in the water. To add a second practice you now have a coach putting in close to 6 hours of work after a full day of teaching. Add to this that the top swimmers are also practicing before school puts the coach at work from 5:30am to 8:30pm each day. Given that in most places the girls and boys seasons are at different times and you have a teacher/coach working 85 hours a week for 7+ months of the year. I would hate to see how high their teaching quality is during the day by month 6 or 7.
Participation is important and no cuts would be ideal but are often times not feasible.
labegg, what you said. I’m also a Texas former cheer mom - competitive and school. School tryouts are a big stressful deal, but yes, lots of “minimum” skills (the standing back is the major weed-out skill), third party judges, then even more scrutiny for the competition team. I saw teams from other schools at State that scared me so much - trying to tumble and stunt way beyond their ability - that could lead to life-altering injuries.
I do like the idea of side-line cheer squads. Boys’ and girls’ basketball needs cheerleaders and meanwhile, the soccer teams are playing and they never have cheerleaders…the games are on the same night and the cheerleaders are stretched thin as it is. My D was in it for the stunting and the tumbling - she would have loved to have skipped all side line cheering.
Schools should not cave once decisions have been made. If parents have issues, double check the scores (in middle school, one girl’s name was mistakenly left off when the list was typed up), then encourage the kid and parents to move on. Chances are, the kid will move on quickly. (One girl we know who didn’t progress past freshman cheer ended up having a fabulous time on the drill team; another girl who had a migraine during tryouts gave up school cheer, concentrated on All Star, and now coaches.)
It’s parents who have a hard time getting over it…it’s pretty natural when our kid feels hurt or disappointed. But we need to just be quiet about it. I can still get riled up over the missed call during my now 25 year old daughter’s 2nd grade softball game that eliminated them from the playoffs (“The girl knew she was out! She was already in the dugout!”)…lol…but I think my D was over it two hours later.
If you want a competitive tumbling team (like gymnastics) with some dance elements, make that a real sport with school-based (not third party) tournaments and standards, and that would be taken seriously. That team would actually compete on behalf of the school, not show up at boy’s games to cheer other athletes. It is a mixed message by controlling the spirit activities at other athletes’ games but wanting to be treated seriously as an athlete in your own right.
Students join no-cut teams for reasons other than padding their college applications. In fact, I think that not being a star on a team is as character-building as getting cut. Perhaps more, because if you’re on the team and don’t medal, you still have had to do all the work and follow all the rules.
It’s pretty belittling to have this one activity be no-cut if the others aren’t. It does take some actual skill and athleticism to be a cheerleader, no matter how I personally feel about it as a sport.
As a former 3 sport HS athlete, with 2 kids who were also competitive HS athletes (one a collegiate athlete) my take from an athlete’s point of view is this. Competitive athletics at the varsity level is about putting out the best team and winning (subject to meeting academic and character standards). However, some sports that are not skill, coaching time or resource intensive should be no cut at least at the JV level. If a kid wants to spend the time and effort to work hard at all the practices and get limited if any competitive playing time, more power to him or her.
Soccer at my school was no cut, although there was V and JV. You had to make the V team as an underclassman, but were automatically in as a senior. At the time, I was annoyed by that because I felt some of the seniors on the team didn’t deserve it. I was particularly upset when on a lot of the conditioning drills if anyone failed to make the time required, the whole team had to run again. Sure as heck, the stronger runners stayed with the laggards and pushed them with both encouragement and, I have to admit, threats of physical consequences if they didn’t pick up the pace. Looking back, I see the lessons learned about teams being only good as their weakest link and therefore the necessity of the stronger members to help and push the weaker ones.
My kids and I also played on true cut teams, baseball, softball and golf. With respect to baseball and softball, while there were JV team options, there is also a safety factor. An unskilled player is a danger to himself/herself and their teammates. The V teams were cut to the coach’s optimal number and had the most time and access to the better fields and equipment. For golf, the numbers were limited by the sheer fact that the private clubs that allowed us to play and practice on their courses limited the numbers a team could bring out.
Yes, sports have multiple benefits, like the value of teamwork, perseverance, leadership and physical activity. But sports also teaches you about competition, winning and losing, how to be or strive to be the best but also how to accept that you are not. Participation as a goal for JV (resources and safety permitting), intramural and rec league teams is great. To extend it to the varsity level is a disservice to everyone, even the kids who would not otherwise make it. Life is not going to treat them so kindly.
@roycroftmom there are statewide advance type “tournaments” in some states… Virginia. In Texas we are in the 3rd year of rolling out a state wide UIL cheer competition.
Cheerleading is trying to develop into a “recognized” skill based activity, but it is Athletic Directors/School Administrators/Public that can’t seem to get past the notion that cheer isn’t really skills based and can’t seem to separate the two; although I am not sure why it can’t be both frankly but if that is the case it is gonna have to be a cut policy activity. Perhaps those kids who want to be spirit leaders could join the Pep club instead of trying to squeeze into what is or has evolved into a skill based activity?!
In this particular case (from what I read) there are two squads–White and Black. The tryout for the higher Black squad required a score of 87. Only 5 or 6 girls made that cut off number. They wanted 10 girls to field a team so lowered the number afterward to 78. More than just one parent complained. By the time they went to the lower score it could have been very arbitrary as to who got on the higher squad. They basically changed the rules after the tryout. I’d be upset too no matter which side of the fence my kid was on.
Competitive teams should have tryouts. Someone mentioned MUN–everyone can join–but that doesn’t mean you get to go to the competitions. Even clubs have standards for competitive teams.
Our high school’s teams are all cut, except for track and XC. But as someone mentioned previously, only the top seven kids are considered varsity. That’s one thing I liked about running - very clear cut who should be varsity! No politics involved (my friends who were soccer parents always seemed upset about who the coach played each week).
At one XC meet, my older son came in first and my younger son came in last. Out of about 100 runners! Another thing I like about running - people cheered as loudly for my younger son as they did for my older one.
This is not quite an apt analogy. In most high schools, there are levels of ability in math (and other subjects)…regular track, advanced, Honors, etc. And so kids are placed by ability in the right level math class. So, in a sport, there can be Varsity, JV, and perhaps a club or intramural level too.
@gouf78 Thank you that was helpful! Changing the qualification score after tryouts is bad policy for sure.
You can’t field a competitive cheer team with 6 team members. You would be unable to build a pyramid and the stunt sequence would be hindered. So in order to make the minimum number of cheerleaders to field a competitive team the score needed to be lowered to capture enough to make a team (usually 9 as a very very minimum). Perhaps the policy should be changed to read meets the threshold score or the top 12 scores if not enough candidates meet the threshold?