Chemical Engineer Job Stability and Availibility

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>engineers on this board, who thinks math/biochem is as hard as engineering? imho, engineering is much harder than anything else. math/physics majors from top schools get hired and their starting pay is just as high as engineering. u might not see the average math major getting higher pay than engineering majors, this is due to the large number of math majors at mediocre Universities. </p>

<p>u don’t need to analyze what i say line by line, my main idea is u lose a chance to explore and satisfy your own curiosity if u choose to major in engineering. Classes that broadens your view, give you new perspectives should be part of any college’s curriculum and should be one of the key ingredients in college. Sometimes the only thing keeping me doing engineering still is because people say that its hard and the high starting salary.</p>

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<p>jeffl, what year in college are you in? And it seems you have some regrets about the career you’ve chosen for yourself.</p>

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<p>Oh yeah I do think that they are as hard. Especially math. I have it on good authority from plenty of engineering students that they think they have it easier than the math students. Engineering is a lot of work, but it tends to be doable work. You keep pounding away at it and your score will get better and better. With math, on the other hand, you either know it or you don’t. If you don’t, hard work doesn’t help. You can work extremely hard and still get a zero on the exam because you can’t do the proofs. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that upper-division math is nothing like the lower-division math. Engineers generally see only lower-division math. Upper-division math is far more proof-oriented, not numbers crunching. No longer are you just being asked to solve equations. You’re being asked to prove theorems. I think most people would agreeing that solving equations is far far easier than proving theorems. </p>

<p>Biochem ain’t no joke either, chiefly because of all the premeds that are in there. Once you get past the engineering weeders, things get a lot easier, and there is far less competition for grades than there is in the biochem classes. Basically, once you’ve made it past the weeders, then as long as you do the work and understand the material, you’re going to pass the class. Maybe not with an ‘A’, but you’re going to pass. With biochem, because of all the premeds, you might study hard and display great understanding of the material - and still fail, because the premeds push up the curve. </p>

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<p>I don’t know about you, but I would certainly say that Berkeley is a top school.</p>

<p>Physics median salary - $45,000
Math median salary - $41,500
EECS median salary - $59,900
ChemE median salary - $54,300
Mechanical E median salary - $53,500</p>

<p><a href=“http://career.berkeley.edu/CarDest/2002Majors.stm[/url]”>http://career.berkeley.edu/CarDest/2002Majors.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>So explain to me again how math/physics students from the top schools get starting pay that is just as high as the engineering students? How is that? Are you going to take the position that Berkeley is not a top school? </p>

<p>Look, I never said that engineering was perfect. Indeed, I agree that there are many things that you could criticize about the engineering curricula, or the engineering career path. On the other hand, you have to think about what the available alternatives are. Just because engineering has problems doesn’t mean that the alternatives are that much better. What I can tell you is that a lot of liberal arts students wish they could be making the kinds of starting salaries that engineers make. Take a gander at the Berkeley salary data and you’ll see what I mean.</p>

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<p>unggio83 - if you keep talking like that, sakky will blame me for logging in under an alias and preaching to myself :)</p>

<p>jeffl - i truly feel sorry for your choice of major and your predicament.</p>

<p>Sakky - you’re right in a provincial way…for stricty UGRAD degrees, engineering is not a bad bet. What I’m saying is that one should go for gold and try to get into a stable field during GRAD school. </p>

<p>…btw, it’s almost as hard to get into GRAD school as MED school, so the MED school option is always open for the high-acheivers. Of course, if you’re not smart enuf to get into GRAD or MED school, then coping out after ugrad is the best that you can do, I guess.</p>

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<p>First of all, are you a “natural” for chemical engineering? Math sats. SAT IICs, sat IIs in chem and physics should all be 750+. physics c , chem and calc bc APs, should all be 5s. If so, you got a shot of getting out with a high enough gpa for med, law or business school if you take he right courses. Chem. engineers are generally well thought of for brains and work ethic and well treated by grad school admissions officers.</p>

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<p>Just got some fresh news. My mom just told me my uncle is worried about his job. In case u didn’t read my earlier posts. I only have 2 uncles that are employed right now. He is worried that after his current project ends, he’ll get laid off. Fujitsu just closed down 2 product lines and transferred production to Canton, China. In case any of you think the engineering industry might still be hot in the bay area. All my uncles and myself live in San Jose, CA. silicon valley. </p>

<p>Anyways since I presume we all agree that the outlook for engineering is gloomy in America. (engineering is a dotcom explosion in India and china right now) That said
I will now answer the main question.</p>

<p>What else can you do besides engineering?</p>

<p>Anything that can guarantee you a job is probably better. My teachers tell me all the time that we should enjoy our work. However to enjoy your work, you need to be employed. I’m not worried about hard work in college, or a mediocre salary that plateaus in 10 yrs, but if I will even get a salary at all. </p>

<p>There are many jobs with secure job prospects, policeman, fireman(very competitive), EMT, registered nurse, physicians assistant. Prison guard. Parole officer. Possibly college professor, open your own business. Go to law school and work as a public prosecutor, work in city hall. For those ppl who say majoring in fine arts, psychology, economics won’t get you a high paying job, that is true, however most ppl majoring in these easy majors generally get a graduate degree or go to law school. </p>

<p>I’ve looked up that santa clara county prosecutors start around 60K per year. That’s not too shabby. It’s secure and there is room for advancement. All the govt jobs I mentioned as a policeman, fireman, nurse have really good health benefits and you can definitely raise a family on your earnings. Plus as a cop in the bay area, you work 4 10hr shifts, which will leave you plenty of time to do what you love. </p>

<p>In the end you don’t have to be an engineer even if you are good at it, you can satisfy ur need for math and science in other ways possibly tutor some kids in math, science, physics etc… during your free time.</p>

<p>That said if you’re absolutely sure u want to do engineering after you’ve RESEARCHED FOR YOURSELF the outlook of engineering, my advice would be to have a backup plan. Possibly take some psychology classes, chemistry, biology, maybe you can go into physicians assistant or nursing. Possibly double major in math and be a teacher. </p>

<p>So as Sakky said at least 50% of ppl never make medical school. Probably closer to 80% since hes right about ppl who don’t even apply if they have less than a 3.0. I thought of a good idea, everyone who wants to go to medical school can still apply but if they don’t make it, be a Physicians assistant. They start at 65K, there’s plenty of overtime and specialization. w/ overtime you could make easily 80-90K a year. Look up job prospects for Physicians assistant on google. The requirements for physicians assistant at uc davis, is the same for med school minus the 1 yr of physics.</p>

<p>It might be possible to learn Chinese or Indian and then maybe work in Asia, though I have not looked into it. </p>

<p>Lastly I’m transferring this fall as EE, but I will definitely switch out. I hope to end up in biomedical engineering as a career. Im considering doing physics w/BME minor at UCI. So if I don’t end up getting an engineering job, I’ll look into being a physicians assistant and tutor some kids part time. (not too bad, I get to help ppl for a living)</p>

<p>(Don’t take my word for my claims, though I assure you everything I’ve stated is true, google what I’ve said if u don’t believe me)</p>

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<p>For all the people who recommend that engineering majors should all go become a doctor. I completely disagree. a M.D. is a graduate degree. You will be spending 8 long hard years of med school & residency, plus recertification and a s.h.i.t. load of debt. I would never sacrifice life and time in my 20’s to my early 30’s for a career that I have no interest in. My life is way too short to give up 10 yrs in my prime & I don’t care if I’m a millionaire after I graduate. Understand that if you become a doctor you will probably not have a life during medical school and residency according to some sources. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/jun/10bspec.htm[/url]”>http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/jun/10bspec.htm&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos”>Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos;

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<p>According to the Berkeley stats that sakky put up:</p>

<p>It’s surprising to me that Comp. programmers and EE make around 60K median salary. I thought it was the chemE’s that were making the big bucks. I’m guessing that this is just the case for majors from Berkeley.
ChemE’s top the list for highest starting undergrad. salary. </p>

<p>At Berkeley, the higher end of the chemE salary is equivalent to the Median EE salary which is ridiculous. There must be a flaw within the system. I’m sure the higher end of chemE’s make around 65K - 70K. </p>

<p>Furthermore, I would like to point out that math and physics are the most difficult majors followed by engineering. Engineering is basically just classical physics, general chemistry (sometimes basic p.chem), and relatively painless math (most of the time).</p>

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<p>yea i regret doing engineering. But, I guess things happen for a reason. and i’ll just have to make the best of it. My warning to all prospective engineering majors that are still in high school: look at other fields before u put yourself on the engineering track. College gives u a chance to explore, often times engineers get stuck after they start the curriculum, some choose to transfer out, but others decide to stick with it because of the challenge, starting salary, etc.
I say this because for some reason, when i chose engineering, i didn’t give too much thought to other majors, like the liberal arts. and i know a few of my friends also considered only 4 tracks: engineering,business,prelaw,premed. there are other things to do as well. U really don’t want to just pick a major because its safe. and keep in mind that what u pick as a major is not as important as you might think it is.</p>

<p>sakk, 40 k, 50k i don’t feel the big difference. engineering people get paid the same salary for a long time.</p>

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<p>epoch_dreams, remember that THE central EECS area - silicon valley - is just across the bridge and down the freeway. Given the opportunities in the area of a college, its starting salaries can vary quite alot, as many students may wish to remain local. :)</p>

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<p>jeffl not all is lost, you can spread out your education over 5 yrs and take some extra classes. you should be enjoying your prime years. We will never NEVER get back the creativity, energy, and curiosity that we have now. You have one life to live, if you dislike engineering that much quit. like i’ve told many others Physicians assistant or nursing is very in demand and pays much better than engineers. requirements to get into the 2 yr physicians assistant program is just a bachelors degree in anything. Take 1 yr of gen. chemistry, few bio courses, and 1 or 2 psych classes. (give urself time to volunteer before applying as well)
my buddys sister graduated as a registered nurse 3 yrs ago, now gets paid 85K a year. just bought a house in the bay area too.</p>

<p>so in case engineering does not work out, take 1 extra year to meet the requirements for Physicians assitant and apply. take comfort in the fact that when you come out of the PA program, you will start at a salary much higher than any engineer will ever EVER MAKE IN THEIR LIFE. (awesome job security too) So enjoy your youth. </p>

<p>as for myself i am a 21 yr old transfer considering doing physics, though i am paranoid about lacking the brain power to make it through upper division. since i only have one life to live, i will give it my best shot. time will tell if this is the right decision.</p>

<p>curiously sakky are you a student , if so please post where you go to school, major, and future career plans</p>

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<p>And this is not possible to do with an engineering undergrad degree? As stated before, plenty of people with engineering degrees apply to professional graduate schools like med-school, and get in. And they do so knowing that they have career insurance if they don’t get in. For example, you may recall the 8% of Berkeley premeds with the 3.9+ GPA’s as well as the 35+ MCAT’s who still got rejected from every med-school they applied to. Well, if they graduated with an engineering degree, then they could just go to work as an engineer for 1 year, make an engineer’s salary, and apply to med-school again the following year. They won’t be living large during that year, but it’s still a pretty decent salary. On the other hand, if they had graduated with a biology degree, well… You can see the kinds of starting salaries that Berkeley biology graduates make. </p>

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<p>But that’s exactly what I’m saying. Let’s face it. The vast majority of people are not smart enough to get into med-school or any decent graduate school. Think of all the no-name schools out there churning out hundreds of thousands of college graduates every year. How many of those people do you think are good enough to get into grad school or medical school? Not too many, you must agree. Not only that, but we both know that a lot of them are going to end up in mediocre jobs paying mediocre salaries. Engineers may not be living at the Ritz, but they’ll have a better lifestyle than those guys. </p>

<p>The point is, engineers are a lot better off, financially, than the vast majority of college graduates out there. You could be doing a lot worse than getting an engineering degree. Again, take a look at the starting salaries of those Berkeley liberal arts majors like Art History or Film Studies. This ain’t some mediocre no-name school we’re talking about here. This is Berkeley. </p>

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<p>Again, if that was really true, then I have to ask - why hasn’t the free market adjusted? Why haven’t starting salaries for engineers dropped to the level that Film Studies and Art History students get? Why are companies still paying more than double for freshly graduated engineers than for freshly graduated Film Studies students, if the outlook for engineering is so gloomy? Are these companies being stupid? </p>

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<p>Do you really think these are secure positions? Let’s keep in mind that public service jobs like law enforcement or firefighting are selective jobs. It’s not like you just complete a checklist of requirements and, wala, you’re a police officer. Police departments hire on a highly competitive basis, based not only on mental attributes, but also on physical attributes. You can prepare yourself mentally and physically as much as you can, and still not get hired. Moreover, these sorts of jobs are also ‘local government monopolies’. For example, if you live in San Francisco and you want to be a cop, and you can’t get hired at the SFPD, the Oakland PD, or any of the other local police departments, then you basically have to move. There are generally far more companies looking to hire engineers at any particular location than there are police departments, hence the diversity of employment plays in the favor of engineers.</p>

<p>I also don’t think I need to get into the occupational hazards of being a cop or a firefighter. Keep in mind that as a cop, you’re going to be tasked with confronting some rather unsavory and dangerous characters. You know the type of people I’m talking about. I know I don’t want to be dealing with these kinds of people. Firefighting involves, well, running into burning buildings. Let’s face it - while I’m not saying engineering is perfectly safe, I think we can all agree that cops and firefighters deal with danger far more often. The same can be said, but to an even greater degree, about prison guards and parole officers. </p>

<p>As far a college professor goes - keep in mind that the goodies go only to the TENURED college profs. It is not easy to make tenure by any stretch of the imagination. Not only that, but except in rare occasions, to become a college prof, you almost always need a doctorate. And even with a doctorate, it is difficult to find a tenure-track job, much less survive the tenure-track to actually make tenure. Studies have estimated that for 4-5 new PhD’s are minted for every new college faculty position that opens. True, not every single new PhD wants to become a professor, but plenty do, so you can see the odds that you face.</p>

<p>Opening your own business is one of the riskiest things you can do, from a financial standpoint. Sure, some people make it and make it big. On the other hand, plenty of businesses don’t make it. It’s estimated that over 90% of all new business ventures go out of business in the first few years of operation. The point is, if you think that running your own business is somehow less risky than an engineering career, you REALLY need to go out and see the world. </p>

<p>Finally, let’s talk about working as a prosecutor. Do you really think it’s that easy? Believe me, it ain’t that easy. You gotta get hired. And prosecutor jobs are quite coveted by the top law school graduates in the country. Remember that a lot of people see becoming a prosecutor as a first step to a career in politics. That’s what John Kerry did after he got his law degree. The point is, it’s not like you can simply graduate from law school and then simply decide to go and then ask the prosecutor’s office to hand you a job. That’s not the way it works. </p>

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<p>First off, getting a graduate degree in liberal arts isn’t exactly going to enhance your career outlook significantly. </p>

<p>As far as law school, think about what you’re saying. The vast majority of these people do not go to law school, because they can’t get in. Yes, these majors are easy, but they still have tons of people who get mediocre grades in them. Let’s face it. If you got straight C’s, you’re probably not going to law school. Or if you can’t get a decent score on the LSAT, you’re probably not going to law school. Plenty of people have bad grades and/or bad LSAT scores. </p>

<p>Even of those who do go to law school, let’s remember that the vast majority of law schools are no-name law schools. Plenty of their graduates will wind up with mediocre law jobs, or no law job at all. Let’s not also forget that just because you go to law school doesn’t mean that you’re going to graduate. Many of the lower-tier law schools, in particular, extensively weed out their students. Attrition rates of close to 50% are not unheard of at some law schools.</p>

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<p>“take comfort in the fact that when you come out of the PA program, you will start at a salary much higher than any engineer will ever EVER MAKE IN THEIR LIFE.”</p>

<p>You have to be kidding.</p>

<p>“median income for first-year graduates was about $63,437.”</p>

<p>That’s from this site and referring to PA:
<a href=“http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft81.shtml[/url]”>http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft81.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You think engineers never make more than that in their lives?</p>

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<p>PA’s start at 65k? Really? Then somebody needs to tell that to all the PA’s out there who are making far less than that. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.payscale.com/salary-survey/vid-83716/fid-6886[/url]”>http://www.payscale.com/salary-survey/vid-83716/fid-6886&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I also looked up the UCDavis PA program. You say that the requirements are the same as med-school minus the 1 year of physics. Really? Then what is this requirement I see here?</p>

<p>"Physician Assistant Program</p>

<p>A minimum of two years (4,000 hours) direct (hands-on) patient care experience is required. Examples of positions providing this experience are: LVN, paramedic, EMT in a busy ER, back office medical assistant, respiratory therapist, licensed acupuncturist, and physical therapist. Not all health care positions provide the experience required by the program. Only actual hands-on patient care hours count towards the experience requirement. For example, ambulance paramedics and EMTs may not count waiting time or transport time toward their patient care experience."</p>

<p><a href=“http://fnppa.ucdavis.edu/admissions/require.htm[/url]”>http://fnppa.ucdavis.edu/admissions/require.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Last time I checked, no medical school required a set number of hours of actual direct patient-care experience before they would consider you for admission. Yes, many people will do volunteer clinic/hospital work to strengthen their med-school application. But it’s not a formal requirement. Here at the UCDavis PA program, it looks like it’s a formal requirement, just to be considered.</p>

<p>Let’s not also forget that even if you do have that, that doesn’t mean that you will be admitted. That’s just the bare minimum requirement. Admission to the program is a competitive process, and I’m sure there are people who will be applying who have substantially more than 4000 hours of direct care experience.</p>

<p>Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not telling anybody not to become a cop, or a PA, or a prosecutor or anything else. What I am pointing out is that there seems to be a lot of ‘grass is greener’ behavior going on here. Yes, engineering has problems, I don’t deny that. But on the other hand, let’s not pretend that other fields don’t have problems too. Whatever else you might say about engineering, I think we can all agree that for a bachelor’s degree, the salary is quite good. Not only that, but you are far more likely to get a job than, say, a guy with a film degree or an art degree. Or even a bio or a psych degree. </p>

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<p>As stated by karthikkito, that’s because Berkeley is near Silicon Valley, which is basically EECS heaven. On the other hand, the Texas/Louisiana gulf coast is ChemE heaven, because of the deep concentration of refineries and chemical processing plants in that part of the country. </p>

<p>Nevertheless, nationwide, other than Petroleum engineers, ChemE’s earn a higher average starting salary than any other bachelor’s degree holder, including EECS. </p>

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<p>Well, tell that to a Berkeley bio major who will go out there and make 25k to start. I don’t think you’re going to get a whole lot of sympathy from that guy. I’m fairly certain he would ** love ** to trade places with you.</p>

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<p>Sakky says that engineers in general have better options than liberal art majors, biology majors, and liberal arts. For that statement to be true, engineers must have a job. I totally agree that an employed engineer is going to have much better options than someone employed as a biologist or a fine arts job (whatever that is). Question is, will you be employed as an engineer in America?</p>

<p>“Why haven’t starting salaries for engineers dropped to the level that Film Studies and Art History students get? Why are companies still paying more than double for freshly graduated engineers than for freshly graduated Film Studies students, if the outlook for engineering is so gloomy? Are these companies being stupid? “ by sakky</p>

<p>Supply and demand is at work, the demand for qualified American engineers justifies their (temporary) high starting salary. Certain tech companies can not outsource their services yet (maybe they are still transitioning into research & development overseas), so they must draw from qualified engineers in America. The question I’m posing is whether Engineering will be a stable and high paying profession in America for the next 30 years? Google how many engineering jobs have moved to China and India. Google how many engineering jobs are expected to be moved to China and India in the near future.</p>

<p>Also the outsourcing phenomenon has just begun. Take a look at the stock value charts for WIT & INFY both companies have split in June of 2004, that’s only one year ago. Sure outsourcing has always been around even since the mid 90’s. the explosion has just begun in the past 2-3 years. Don’t forget the dot com bust was only 5 yrs ago. It takes time for free market to adjust. Also when he states that the engineers have the highest starting salaries, you will pretty much only keep that job if you are irreplaceable. After all the company has to justify paying you quadruple the salary of Indian and Chinese engineers somehow. So as I’ve stated before if you’re brilliant and extraordinarily talented you can never be replaced. However if you’re just a mediocre engineer who likes math and science and wants to raise a family, engineering might not be such a good choice in terms of security over the next 30 years.<br>
<a href=“INFY Interactive Stock Chart | Infosys Limited Stock - Yahoo Finance”>INFY Interactive Stock Chart | Infosys Limited Stock - Yahoo Finance;
<a href=“WIT Interactive Stock Chart | Wipro Limited Stock - Yahoo Finance”>WIT Interactive Stock Chart | Wipro Limited Stock - Yahoo Finance;

<p>So, all these statistics of current engineers having the highest starting salary is moot. Tell me if engineers will have the highest starting salaries in America 15 years from now &(AND) if most of the graduates are employed. No point bragging about having the highest starting salary if only 1 in 10 is employed. (I’m exaggerating about 1 in 10 to make a point.) Again, I am telling everyone to focus on the long term 10- 30 year outlook for engineering in America not just immediately after graduation.</p>

<p>As to why engineers get double the salary of art history & film studies majors, I would guess that engineers are more valuable than any film studies or art history majors anywhere in the world. (I have never advocated anyone to become a film studies or art history major)</p>

<p>Remember when we choose engineering as a career we plan on doing it for at least 30 to 40years. Will engineering be around in the next 10 yrs, probably, will the AVERAGE engineer in America for the next 30 years have a secure job that pays enough to raise a family?? I don’t know, but I doubt it. </p>

<p>“Police departments hire on a highly competitive basis, based not only on mental attributes, but also on physical attributes. You can prepare yourself mentally and physically as much as you can, and still not get hired.” By sakky</p>

<p>Keep in mind that the requirements to be a police officer is 40 semester units of college credit. 20 ½ years of age and no felonies. (not even 2 yrs of college!!) So I doubt that “highly competitive” is accurate in describing the police recruiting process. Everything I post on this thread is meant for people with engineering ability, I guarantee that I would outscore most of the police recruits in any kind of mental testing. As for physical requirements, I guess that depends on the person we’re talking about. I assumed most people on this thread are in their late teens, early twenties, and in the best shape of their lives. I exercise regularly and would have no problem running an 8 min. mile or climbing a 6 foot wall. Plus if you have a bachelor’s degree you will get priority in the hiring process. (speaking Spanish helps too)
<a href=“http://www.sjpd.org/Employment.cfm[/url]”>http://www.sjpd.org/Employment.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Yes there are a lot of occupational hazards for a police officer, fireman, parole officer and etc…. so I agree these blue collar professions might not be for everyone, but hey it is an option. Since most engineers are male and most police officers are male, I just figured most men are not pus.sies. If you die on the job, SJPD has a life insurance policy to take care of your family (250K I believe). I’m not too familiar with the fringe benefits for firemen, but I would imagine it’s similar to a cop, since they have a very large union as well. (average starting salary is 75K not including overtime) I talked to a fireman w/ 20 yrs of experience he is making 100K salary plus 20K in overtime. Guess what else? these guys get a nice pension when they retire.</p>

<p>About the career as a lawyer, I agree that many law grads from no name schools don’t have jobs. However many studies have shown that engineers outperform any other undergrad major in law school. Hell I bet the engineering curriculum is more rigorous than law school. (then again which is more difficult is entirely subjective) So I assumed if you’re an engineering major and decided to go into law school, you would graduate at least in the middle of the class if not higher. Take a look at where our local district attorneys got their law degrees. I’m not talking about the judges, but just you’re average district attorney. They most likely did not come out of the top 15 law schools. Also when you are in law school, you’re expected to intern during the summer. I know most the UC Davis law grads go into government for employment. Another thing, nobody starts out as a district attorney, but an assistant district attorney. Intellectual property is an option if you’re smart enough and willing to work the 2200-2500 billable hours.</p>

<p>Physician’s assistant may not be for everyone, but I explained why it’s a job option with secure job prospects and good pay relative to engineering. </p>

<p>I mentioned PA for the premeds that did not make it into medical school, so what if the PA program at UC Davis requires 4000 hrs of hands on training, take an extra year off and volunteer or work. I assume if you’re a premed that you should have been volunteering for at least 3 of your college years. H.e.l.l. work as an EMT and get paid while meeting your requirements. </p>

<p>“take comfort in the fact that when you come out of the PA program, you will start at a salary much higher than any engineer will ever EVER MAKE IN THEIR LIFE.”</p>

<p>Ever hear of overtime? I hope you don’t believe that all engineers work only 40 hours a week. I meant to say a salary higher than MOST engineers will ever make. Why don’t you compare the job placement rates between PA and engineering graduates in America? Why don’t you compare the expected demand over the next 15 years between these two professions? Please don’t focus only on starting salaries. Think about the big picture, our starting salaries is not that important after 30 years. As we go deeper into our career we will have more expenses (family etc…). A career with secure employment and advancement opportunities would be most advantageous. </p>

<p>Again as I said I’m not advising against majoring in engineering. However if they plan on a career in engineering, I am telling them to research for themselves the OUTLOOK for the NEXT 30 YEARS OF ENGINEERING. Be prepared for intense global competition from India & China. China and India I predict will become the next super powers by the end of this century. Have a backup plan in case engineering does not work out.</p>

<p>Like sakky says engineering majors can go into investment banking or consulting, but as for careers in engineering in America I still say it looks gloomy. </p>

<p>While engineering majors currently have the highest starting salaries, how many of them are actually employed after graduation? Is the demand for engineers in America going to be strong after 10 years?</p>

<p>I find engineering or physics to be very fufilling, however I am fully prepared if it does not turn into a career. So I guess we’re both focusing on different things.
This must be the longest post on CC.</p>

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<p>as for the competition to get into PA program, it is no more competitive to get into the program than it is to find an engineering job in America. i would assume its much easier since there is a strong demand for PA’s. oh yeah my buddy works at a hospital in orange county, they have 6 pages of open positions for registered nurses. anybody with a RN degree who walks in gets an immediate interview, and pretty much hired on the spot. i believe this demand speaks for itself. </p>

<p>hey peck191 why don’t you call a hospital and ask if they’re hiring PA’s or RN’s? do a search on monster and see how many openings turn up for RN’s and PA’s versus engineering?</p>

<p>so anyways i agree w/ sakky to some extent that engineering is alright for a major, but the people who think engineering as a career is all roses are fu.cking morons.</p>

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<p>

<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos081.htm[/url]”>http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos081.htm&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos083.htm[/url]”>http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos083.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>i tend to trust the U.S. Department of Labor a bit more than payscale.com</p>

<p>in case you didn’t know your salary depends on your cost of living. so salaries vary across the nation. my buddies sister, a RN in san jose, gets salary of 60K a year. if you look at my links you’ll see that PA’s get paid more than RN’s, so it is very very likely that PA’s in the bay area get more than 65K. and remember these salaries are for a 40hr work week, not including any overtime. you can not even compare the job demand and pay between engineering and health care.</p>

<p>so compare the local salaries between PA’s and RN’s to local salaries for engineers. i’d like to see you compare the demand between engineers and RN’s in idaho or nebraska.</p>

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<p>FloridaToNYC-</p>

<p>I’m not sure you can classify people as “natural” for a career. But I do enjoy chemistry, physics, and math a lot, and I can understand the concepts in them pretty well (at least compared to others at my high school, dunno how I would fair in college though).</p>

<p>I got an 800 on the math section of the last SAT I took. But I doubt that would be a good indicator of how I would do with the math involved in engineering since that math would obviously be much more advanced than the math on the SAT. I haven’t taken the SAT II: Math IIc yet, but I’m planning to at the beginning of this upcoming school year.</p>

<p>As for the SAT II: Chemistry, I got a 750 on that. And I’m taking Calc BC AP and Chem AP next year.</p>

<p>As for the GPA for law, business, or med school. I’m not interested in going to any of those. For me, I’ll most likely go to either graduate school or pharmacy school (if ever agree to my dad’s strongly suggested career path of a pharmacist). So GPA will be important anyways. </p>

<p>unggio83-</p>

<p>What type of engineers are your uncles? Certain types have more job opportunities than others, which is why I specifically asked about chemical engineers.</p>

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<p>I googled chemical engineer job outlooks and found the following pieces of information:</p>

<p>From <a href=“http://stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos029.htm[/url]”>http://stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos029.htm&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Little or no growth in employment of chemical engineers is expected though 2012. Although overall employment in the chemical manufacturing industry is expected to decline, chemical companies will continue to research and develop new chemicals and more efficient processes to increase output of existing chemicals. Among manufacturing industries, pharmaceuticals may provide the best opportunities for jobseekers. Many of the jobs for chemical engineers, however, will be in nonmanufacturing industries, especially services industries such as research and testing services. Even though no new jobs due to growth are expected to be created, many openings will result from the need to replace chemical engineers who transfer to other occupations or leave the labor force.</p>

<p>From <a href=“http://www.chemistry.org/portal/a/c/s/1/acsdisplay.html?DOC=vc2\3wk\wk3_chemeng.html[/url]”>http://www.chemistry.org/portal/a/c/s/1/acsdisplay.html?DOC=vc2\3wk\wk3_chemeng.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>The demand in the past few years for chemical engineers at major chemical and pharmaceutical companies is expected to continue. As the biotechnology industry continues to grow, opportunities for chemical engineers will expand. Chemical engineering research jobs are increasing in importance with the development and large-scale implementation of new energy sources designed as substitutes for the world’s diminishing supplies of petroleum and natural gas.</p>

<p>From <a href=“http://www.chemicalengineer.com/oohinfo.htm[/url]”>http://www.chemicalengineer.com/oohinfo.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Chemical engineering graduates may face competition for jobs as the number of openings in traditional fields is projected to be lower than the number of graduates. Employment of chemical engineers is projected to grow more slowly than the average for all occupations though 2010. Although overall employment in the chemical manufacturing industry is expected to decline, chemical companies will continue to research and develop new chemicals and more efficient processes to increase output of existing chemicals, resulting in some new jobs for chemical engineers. Among manufacturing industries, specialty chemicals, plastics materials, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology, and electronics may provide the best opportunities. Much of the projected growth in employment of chemical engineers, however, will be in nonmanufacturing industries, especially services industries such as research and testing services. </p>

<p>From <a href=“NACE - Page not found”>NACE - Page not found;

<p>Top 10 Degrees in Demand (Bachelor’s Degree Level)
Accounting
Electrical engineering
Mechanical engineering
Business administration/management
Economics/finance
Computer science
Computer engineering
Marketing/marketing management
Chemical engineering
Information sciences and systems</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.graduatingengineer.com/futuredisc/chemical3.html[/url]”>http://www.graduatingengineer.com/futuredisc/chemical3.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I won’t paste anything from this link, because it contains a somewhat long article.</p>

<p>If you’ve read through those pieces of information, you would see that there are some contradicting views… </p>

<p>Ugh, I don’t know whether or not to think chemical engineering is an okay career path (job opportunity-wise) for me anymore. I don’t want to be worried about being laid off or finding another job in my 40’s or 50’s.</p>

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<p>unggio83 … you’re really driving the point home. Who cares how high an engineering salary is if you’re not employed!</p>

<p>It’s not too tough to get an engineering job right out of college (they call it fresh meat), but it damn tough to stop getting laid off within 5 years…then the pressure really begins, and it’s damn, damn tough to find the next job for a couple of years. Once you get older (30+, and especially after 35), you’ll be HIGHLY discriminated against, and you may go months (maybe a year in some cases) without any job interviews! If you lose your job at the age of 40, it’s like breaking your hip at the age of 90 – your family better REALLY love you at that point, cause that’s what you’re going to be living on.</p>