<p>Claremarie, my mother was raised Catholic. Catholic school all the way through, the whole works.</p>
<p>Her mother (my grandmother) refused to attend her second wedding, to my (step) father who was Jewish (they were married by a rabbi).</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how deeply this hurt my mother to the core. </p>
<p>I am pleased to say that my grandmother did realize, a few years later, how very wrong she was, and how wonderful my dad was to her and to me (he adopted me and I became his daughter in every way, shape and form and he did not differentiate between me and my younger sister, who was “his” biologically).</p>
<p>They made their sincere peace with one another and all is well. But I cannot emphasize enough how hurtful such a policy is (and I say the same thing for Jews who won’t attend their child’s wedding). </p>
<p>“Your view of what it means to “teach and live the faith” doesn’t appear to have much love in it.”</p>
<p>A priest’s responsibility is to love as Christ loves, with regard for souls being more important than anyone’s personal feelings. Christ did not hesitate to teach the truth, even when it was unpopular and people were offended. The woman at the well might have felt better and empowered had Jesus not untactfully pointed out that the man she was living with was not her husband, but she also would not have been converted and helped to convert others. The woman caught in adultery might have preferred that Jesus tell the would-be stoners that they should go away because she hadn’t really done anything wrong, but he could not forgive her sin without acknowledging it as sin.<br>
Your view of what it means to teach and live the faith doesn’t appear to be consistent with how Jesus actually taught and lived.</p>
<p>Whatever, claremarie – all’s I can tell you is that attitudes like yours are why so many good people have left your faith, members of my family included.</p>
<p>"Claremarie, my mother was raised Catholic. Catholic school all the way through, the whole works.</p>
<p>Her mother (my grandmother) refused to attend her second wedding, to my (step) father who was Jewish (they were married by a rabbi).</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how deeply this hurt my mother to the core."</p>
<p>Pizzagirl,
If your mother had been a serious practicing Catholic, she would have gotten married in a Catholic Church, rather than by a rabbi. She chose otherwise, and probably knew (or should have known, if your grandmother was a serious practicing Catholic) that one of the consequences would be that her mother would not be present. Again, if your mother had left the Church, then there should not have been a problem, and your grandmother’s refusal was not based on actual Church teaching. Did your mother and grandmother have a sincere, loving conversation about the matter?</p>
<p>The “policy” is only hurtful for those who do not fully understand it, which would be most people, if the reaction on this board is any indication.<br>
It’s not really Christ-like to label as un-Christ-like those who are simply doing their best to practice their faith.</p>
<p>“Whatever, claremarie – all’s I can tell you is that attitudes like yours are why so many good people have left your faith, members of my family included.”</p>
<p>“Whatever” is a very thoughtful response. Lots of people leave the faith for lots of reasons, and ignorance of or unwillingness to live by Church teachings is right up there.
Even for those who were raised Catholic, with Catholic school all the way. </p>
<p>Lots of Christ’s disciples left him at Capernum when he told them to eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to have eternal life. They were happy to hear his talk about how blessed are the poor and meek, and thrilled to eat his free loaves and fishes, but not so interested in his more challenging teachings. </p>
<p>Attitudes like yours are also responsible for bringing many people BACK into the Church. They find that a life lived by making up and following your own rules doesn’t actually work very well.</p>
<p>“Funny, that is exactly what I would say about you, so I guess we must simply agree to disagree.”</p>
<p>Can you provide any examples in which Jesus condoned sin, or encourage people to keep on sinning, or told people that sin was actually virtue, or enabled people in their sinful behavior? Can you point to passages from the Gospel in which Jesus told his apostles to tell people what they wanted to hear, rather than the truth?</p>
<p>Could someone address my question in #237 about attire, cross-dressing and what that does for someone who wishes to do it?</p>
<p>What made me think of it was the link someone posted many pages ago on this thread that showed Chaz’s girlfriend, and there were several pictures of Chaz as well. In the photos of Chaz he is wearing makeup and obviously lipstick, as well as quite feminine earrings. Surely that doesn’t really dovetail with his desire to live as a man, or what am I missing?</p>
<p>Can you provide examples in which Jesus identified transgendered people as sinners? Jesus did not condone sin, but what YOU view as sin is not necessarily what HE views as sin.</p>
<p>Donating a kidney involves the removal of a functioning part of the body. It does not necessarily impair overall bodily function, but it does create risk.</p>
<p>Anuddahmom-
Going out on a limb here, as I do not profess expertise in this area, but I think what you are asking re: one aspect of cross-dressing is associated with a sexual fetish. Some men like to dress in womens clothing (sometimes undergarments) for sexual arousal. These individuals dont usually dress in womens clothing for day-to-day wear ( except sometimes the underwear). That is entirely separate from theatrical cross-dressing (e.g. drag queen shows) or wearing clothes that is consistent with ones identity.</p>
<p>As for Chaz Bono (yay! Back to the topic at hand), what year were the photos taken that you describe in post# 253? I imagine that before Chaz was clear in his decision to transition, he chose at times to use make-up or jewelry (perhaps especially if attending public events with his mother) that were consistent with his then identified gender. A little lipstick is a far cry from heavy make-up, and certainly earrings are gender neutral these days. I wonder (and hopefully DonnaL or quaerie will respond) if, during the course of choosing to transition, as part of the “being sure” as they formalize their decision, one chooses to dress as their current gender and at other times as their transitioned gender. Would that make any sense, Donna and/or quaerie?</p>
<p>“Can you provide examples in which Jesus identified transgendered people as sinners? Jesus did not condone sin, but what YOU view as sin is not necessarily what HE views as sin.”</p>
<p>“He answered, 'Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one?’ So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” Mt 19:4. </p>
<p>Jesus did not provide an exhaustive list of sins, but he did condemn as sins many behaviors which current society condones, such as adultery, divorce, fornication, and lustful thoughts.</p>
<p>Donating a kidney does not prevent the donor’s body from functioning properly, which is why such donations are permitted.<br>
There is risk involved in every surgery.</p>
<p>“properly” is such an interesting term as used above. One would have to ask: who determines the propriety? </p>
<p>Is the body functioning properly while on dialysis, for example? Regardless of the answer to that question, I remain puzzled by the qualifications of the self-appointed arbiters of what is “Proper” and what is not.</p>
<p>I do think it’s pretty clear that God – if you believe in Her – disagrees with Claremarie about the surgical alteration of genitals necessarily being sinful.</p>
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<p>And then there are the non-judgmental references to eunuchs (as well as to people born intersexed) in Matthew, and the story of the baptized eunuch in Apostles, if you’re inclined to read the Christian Bible. A eunuch, of course, is hardly the same as a trans woman (although transgendered people who altered their genitals, as well as they could, existed even then – just as they’ve existed since time immemorial in India, and still do today.)</p>
<p>As a resident of California, Chastity Bono was legally barred from marrying her girlfriend. BUT, after gender reassignment, Chaz Bono WILL be able to legally marry this same woman. It’s a shame that it makes any difference either way, which shows how inane Proposition 8 is.</p>