<p>Parents do not need to pay $50K to give a crap.<br>
I don’t think you could show data to prove that.
Are they all doing well? If so, then we would at least know what to do - throw more money at it.</p>
<p>Oh, there’s probably an occasional ax-murderer. One of six, give or take, will be an alcoholic or have a serious alcohol problem later in life. And most will have the money to deal with it. They’ll have pretty wives and husbands, preferably multiple (serially; a few of the male gender might keep them in parallel.) Most inherit well enough. It’s the american way.</p>
<p>Same for the Walmart clerks. Occasional ax-murderer. If school has done it’s job, they’ll know their place. Their wives and husbands will be less pretty, and have more health problems that won’t get treated - they don’t deserve treatment; after all, they failed 10th grade math. They’ll have more problems with their alcohol use 'cause they don’t have the money to deal with it. They won’t inherit dogdoo. It’s also the american way.</p>
<p>Then there are the technocrats, the occasional engineer, a couple of doctors, two or three astronauts, and some high paid accountants and stockbrokers. A few serial killers. You don’t have to design an entire school system to get enough of them - in fact, we really have too many of each already (except maybe the accountants). Lot’s of the kids will lose their inheritance when mom and dad get taken to the cleaners. It’s also the american way.</p>
<p>^^^this just gets kind of old after a while.</p>
<p>Nice to add/edit after posting.</p>
<p>Yes, we all know money doesn’t buy everything. It is time and effort from parents that matter. We are all experienced parents here. Just because parents are willing to pay 35K+ for 13 years of private education doesn’t make those parents neglectful.</p>
<p>It does, doesn’t it? Societies don’t change very quickly, do they? It’s nice that ours is so easy to describe.</p>
<p>Schools are embedded in a much larger social fabric, and can’t be understood well without it.</p>
<p>Money DOESN’T buy everything. We all know that. That gets really old. But, barring the existence of other things, it sure can buy an awful lot.</p>
<p>I’m sure you felt your investment was worth it, and I applaud you for it. Spend $35k intelligently, for 13 years, for every kid in the Chicago Public School system…oh, wait, forget that idea, we won’t get enough Walmart clerks.</p>
<p>I know mini, but it doesn’t buy you. On the other hand, it just bought me a really nice dinner tonight. :)</p>
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<p>So the fact that tax-funded public education is mandatory absolves parents from any need to actively participate in their kids’ education/future?</p>
<p>Ok, why don’t you “return” the cost of education to the parents of the most under-performing students. Give them the choice of sending their kids to PS-23809 or Exeter. The kid is still going to flame out spectacularly, regardless of school quality, because school quality ultimately means jack. They spent their entire lives in an environment that’s apathetic at best, and frequently antagonistic, towards any sort of educational achievement. By the time they get to middle school, their fate has long been determined.</p>
<p>Oldfort is spot on. At every single socioeconomic stratum, Asian-Americans dominate their peers. Doesn’t matter whether you control for income, control for school quality, control for neighborhood. There are tons of poor Asian/Indian kids (often the children of shopkeepers/small business owners) growing up in South Central LA, Chicago, NYC in the exact same failing districts as their Black/Hispanic peers. Why do the poor Asian kids succeed when they’re given the same material resources as their URM peers? Because the Asian parents actively participated in their education from day 1. It’s the most salient variable.</p>
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I didn’t just spend $35k/year on my kids, I gave up most of my time for my kids, and that was priceless. Even if I didn’t have $35K to spend on my kids, my time with my kids and our family value on education would helped our kids do better in school.</p>
<p>Sorry I am missing all the Walmart remarks, way over my head. Not sure why we would need any Walmart clerks. Couldn’t they all be replaced by automated check out?</p>
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<p>You might try to read the words of others a bit more critically. I am afraid you missed every point I made earlier. </p>
<p>“Actively participat[ing] in their kids’ education/future” is not the same as “having to bear the responsibility” of providing the education. </p>
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<p>Really?</p>
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<p>Lol, I’ve heard all kind of reasons why Johnny can’t read, but poor air quality??? Apparently the public school kids in Beijing and Shanghai that are kicking butt didn’t get the memo that they have a bad learning environment.</p>
<p>@GMTplus7, The learning environment (including air quality) can easily affect student performance. In addition to allergy issues, air quality can cause stuffiness that leads to discomfort. Uncomfortable rooms are not conducive to learning.</p>
<p>And the attitude about education is different in China. I doubt the schools are any better. They’re flawed in their own ways.</p>
<p>Xiggi: We get it. For whatever reason, you loathe public schools and teachers unions and never miss a chance to berate them online. Walk a mile in the shoes of a public school employee, especially one in a poor, urban district, and then maybe you would have some credibility. I for one, am tired of your rants.</p>
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<p>Jumping into the conversation here, but not every parent has the luxury of devoting oodles of extra time to their children’s education. Everyone wants to talk about parental involvement, but not the situations that make this involvement incredibly difficult. </p>
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<p>Have you ever considered variables outside of strictly socio-economic status? It’s not always out and out about money, it’s about creating an environment where a student knows they can succeed. And whether it’s in schools or outside of them, this environment is often not cultivated for African American and Latino students. The CPS system (as well as perhaps the majority of school systems across the country) create the assumption that these students will fail, and does little to remedy the situation when they do. When white and Asian American students exhibit signs of weakness, teachers often do all they can to address the “anomaly”. But for students outside of these categories, the attitude is often “well, that’s probably all we’re going to get from so-and-so, anyway”.</p>
<p>Trying to “control” for every factor besides race makes very little sense due to the many (MANY… many many many) unseen (or rather, seldom addressed) racial inequalities that undermine such.</p>
<p>The continued violence in low-income Chicago streets (many shootings last night, Thanksgiving Eve) certainly has an trickle-down effect to the deterioration of education in these areas. If there was 35% unemployment there before the economic downturn, now it could be 75%. </p>
<p>My D was driving from her med school rotation in the southern suburbs yesterday afternoon back to her apartment on the North Side, and called to rant about the stopped traffic, almost pleading for alternate routes. I told her sure, through the near South Side, but under no circumstances did I want her traversing those streets even DURING THE DAY. I told her to stay on the expressway, to grin and bear it. </p>
<p>Why? Because there is a total, complete breakdown in many of those South and West side neighborhoods on a socioeconomic basis. The drug gangs continue to run roughshod, and the understaffed Chicago PD can only try to rein it in and keep it from spreading, like a forest fire. The state is broke, the city is broke, and folks that were upstanding citizens–maybe working factory/manufacturing jobs–are now unemployed. And it filters down to the education system.</p>
<p>Writing this, I’ve come to the realization that yes, the parent(s) of these truant or no-show kids are responsible for their offspring, but are really, really behind the eight-ball because of the hand that’s been dealt them, especially lately. It’s no wonder that coming in to get a report card is not exactly high on their priority list.</p>
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When parents want to be involved they can find ways to do it. At the same time, when they don’t want to then they can always find excuse not to. Parents can be very involved without having to stay home.</p>
<p>Sometimes the problem is transportation, conflicts with job(s), and family responsibilities like caring for an older relative. However, I have seen parents who manage, despite all these challenges, to get to school as much as they can.</p>
<p>Our rural elementary school had many Hispanic students. I don’t know for sure but strongly suspect that many of their parents were in this country illegally. Most of these parents did not speak much English and were very low income and worked several jobs. Some were illiterate in any language. However, they would do anything in their power to get to school performances and teacher conferences. They did not need to be fed or given gift cards. I have seen parents bring their children to school in the morning and “talk” to the teacher in gestures and a few words in English and Spanish. I have seen some of these exchanges end in hugs and tears. One family made simple homemade Christmas ornaments out of household scraps for their children’s teachers – probably some of the most treasured gifts those teachers ever received. Those parents, through their hard work and dedication to an education that they never received themselves, ought to be an example to everyone rich and poor. Some of their children now have scholarships to four-year colleges and many are in community college.</p>
<p>I realize that it’s very hard to compare poverty in rural areas to poverty in inner cities, where the sense of desperation and hopelessness seems to be far more pronounced and where returning to one’s home after dark might even be dangerous. However, the schools can only do so much. The parents have to step up to the plate at some point, if just by making homework a priority.</p>
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<p>That’s all very fine and dandy to say.</p>
<p>Not so easy to put into practice for someone who already stretches their time just to put food on the table and provide for basic necessities for their child day-after-day, week-after-week. Not everyone can work just one 9-5 job to support their family. In fact, fewer and fewer people have that opportunity with each passing year.</p>
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What about 11 hour day plus 3+ hours of commute, and working on weekends? Never missed any parent/teacher conference or any of my kids’ dance performance. How to do that? Work extra hours on weekends, not taking lunch hour ever so I could leave early sometimes to be at my kids’ activities. Been there done that.</p>
<p>I have seen some highly successful executives (men/women) re-arranging their schedules to be with their kids, instead of leaving it to hired help to do everything. I also know some people making minimum wages and still make a point to be there for their kids.</p>
<p>If parents can’t be there for their kids, it is unreasonable to expect teachers to do all the work for them.</p>
<p>Since public schools have little legal authority to <em>require</em> parent participation, they need to figure out how to teach children without relying on parental support. I think we know this is possible, because boarding schools do it, and some children without involved parents do succeed. Focussing on teaching children without regard to their parents makes more sense to me than spending time and resources trying to teach the parents how to be involved.</p>
<p>Chicago, in addition to having a few test-in gifted schools, has a number of lottery magnet schools. A parent needs to be aware and interested in such programs to apply; as a consequence, the students are better overall, even though there are no admission tests or cut-offs.</p>
<p>The quality of teaching is better there also, because better teachers compete for new openings – they would rather have students whose parents are involved with their education at home; it means more engaged students and less disruptive ones.</p>