<p>
</p>
<p>This is true, but many of the all-state violinists are not prodigies, just very hard working musicians. There is a big difference between “talent” and “prodigy”.</p>
<p>Valentine claimed that his son was a musical prodigy before age 6. He must have some documentation to support this claim. I was just asking for him to provide some, for the curious among us.</p>
<p>In reply to Allmusic #201
</p>
<p>Well, Valentine even claimed that his 8 month old is a musical prodigy too. This is his press report about his 8 month old
</p>
<p>He also published a PRESS RELEASE to news syndicate about his own giftedness in music. The following third person press report is actually written by Valentine himself about himself</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I do not know enough about music to understand what it means. I don’t know the songs, or how hard they are. I don’t know if Valentine give a public performance in a concert hall when he said “pieces performed at 11”. Perhaps Allmusic can try to access the difficulties of these pieces?</p>
<p>The public performance may have been in his parents’ basement, for all we know.</p>
<p>PS, I am not a singer, nor raising one, so I can’t speak to the difficulty of the vocal pieces Valentine references. I was curious about the piano repertoire, however, as this is a domain with which I do have experience.</p>
<p>The musical gifts shown by the eight month old are also of great interest to me.</p>
<p>Well, I do know something about the choral works Valentine referenced. 
I would be very interested to know how he performed them( as a member of a choir, as a soprano, mezzo-soprano, tenor:) or bass soloist) . St John Passion is the work of a staggering size and scope , close to 2 hrs long, by no means easy to perform even for a professional singer. Mozart is a little bit easier on the voice( Bach’s arias are notoriously tricky breathing-wise) but still way too big for any 11 yo to perform on stage.</p>
<p>At 3, my S could do a mean Queen of the Night aria (without being able to read music). He was no prodigy; he just happened to love The Magic Flute. And sadly, he is a mediocre musician today, not having applied himself properly.</p>
<p>Apparently, pavarotti coudn’t read notes. However, he couldn’t sing the Queen of the Night, and I am delighted to hear that your son now has the same problem…</p>
<p>Lost:</p>
<p>I am delighted about this, too! I did not want him to be singing falsetto. Think about all those castrati! Countertenor, maybe. He does still have perfect pitch.</p>
<p>I am very interested in hearing more about this musical giftedness as well, including what piano pieces the boy was playing, what sort of music he was composing (was he writing the music down?), and what signs of musical giftedness are seen in the eight month old. Did these boys study music with a professional musician? </p>
<p>I think that a lot of people can play music well, and most smart people can play music well. In addition, some people are naturally drawn toward music. These things do not mean that someone is a prodigy. The musical director of a conservatory near my home (who is really a world-class pianist today but was not a child prodigy, he says) called me a prodigy when he heard me play. I don’t think that I am–at all. I played one instrument most of my life and was quite successful with it. I think that it was the level of success that should be expected when a smart person studies an instrument for years. Then I started piano lessons and fell in love. It was much different than with my other instrument. Piano music for me isn’t difficult to learn–the music itself and the mechanics of playing feel intuitive and natural, so I can pick it up well and relatively painlessly. I progressed very quickly, but I was also working very hard. I love the piano, so I devoted many hours to it during these first weeks and months. I perhaps have a natural inclination toward the piano, but this does not mean that I am any more musically “gifted” in general than any other smart person who studies an instrument. </p>
<p>Anyway, like -Allmusic-, this is an area of interest for me. I think that true musical prodigies are exceptionally rare; natural talent and affinity come in different amounts, but prodigiousness goes beyond these things. A good music performance requires depth, and I think it is exceptionally rare that a child is at a stage in development that he can make a piece really breathe and live as opposed to simply playing it and mirroring the intonations of another performer.</p>
<p>I also want to quickly add that “perfect pitch” is not necessarily a sign of special musical talent. The fact that Valentine could apparently reproduce the notes of a piece is not an unusual feat for someone with perfect pitch. Though musicians almost certainly have a good sense of pitch, a natural sense of true/perfect pitch is seen in non-musicians, successful musicians, and average musicians. (EDIT: Marite, this part of my post was certainly not aimed at your posts about your son. I did not know that your son had perfect pitch until your most recent post, which I x-posted with.)</p>
<p>Replying to Valentine in post #183
Valentine: Either you are incredibly naive or you are in total denial. How can NTU possibly accept Ainan? Their admission requirements are clearly listed on their website,
[Nanyang</a> Technological University - Admissions](<a href=“http://www.ntu.edu.sg/publicportal/Prospective+Students/Undergraduate+Admissions/4e00ecdc-9f0d-4e6d-9b17-a8f36bd446fc.htm]Nanyang”>http://www.ntu.edu.sg/publicportal/Prospective+Students/Undergraduate+Admissions/4e00ecdc-9f0d-4e6d-9b17-a8f36bd446fc.htm).
The requirements are :</p>
<p>
Ainan did not even met one of requirements of the University!!! </p>
<p>Ainan has :
**1 subject from an O-level Certificate where he got a “C”. **</p>
<p>NTU admission requirements are :
**at least 3 subjects from an A-level Certicate with at least 2 passes.
a passing grade in GP (English)
a passing grade in another 2nd language **</p>
<p>(The difference is huuuuge!!!) No university is going to lower their academic requirement so much to accomodate a 7 years old, because it will eventually hurt your son Ainan if they matriculate him when he is totally not ready.
Apparently, you do not seem to understand this, and called press conference and a worldwide search to see if there are other universities in the world who could lower their admission requirements for Ainan.</p>
<p>The reason why Universities have academic admission critierias is to make sure that the incoming students will suceed. I am not aware of any universities worldwide that would totally waive all their admission criterias because a 7 years old got a “C” in basic chemistry. Perhaps some non-accredited Universities who offer degree in exchange for cash might do that.</p>
<p>You are also mistaken to think that the American college system is much easier, and would be able to accomodate Ainan. That is incorrect too!!!. Your claim that the British/Australian undergrad education is the equivalent of an American graduate education is totally wrong. Many parents on this forum, including 1of42 have already explain that to you.</p>
<p>omg…this thread hasn’t died yet? once your son has taken every possible course that you want him to take, then what? Are you really going to send him into the working world at age 12? I say slow down. Good luck.</p>
<p>"This is true, but many of the all-state violinists are not prodigies, just very hard working musicians. There is a big difference between “talent” and “prodigy”.</p>
<h2>Valentine claimed that his son was a musical prodigy before age 6. He must have some documentation to support this claim. I was just asking for him to provide some, for the curious among us."</h2>
<p>Well, I agree with you there. Prodigy is a term used loosely. The strict definition is being at an adult professional level at a young age. You see these kids on PBS occasionally. </p>
<p>What I assume is that the difference between Valentine’s kids and normal kids (or even other gifted kids) was pretty shocking and not really the result of a lot of work. I wouldn’t call the all-state violinists prodigies, but I wouldn’t say their success is merely a result of hard work either. I knew one guy who won a national violinist competition as a sophomore in high school, and his training regime seemed to be Jack Daniels and vodka! No one ever saw him practice. That guy might have prodigy-like talent. However, the other guys I knew that were all-state musicians would have blown a lot of other people out of the water with minimal effort. In fact, music was only a side thing for them. There is a continuum of musical talent just like everything else.</p>
<p>My husband plays a video to his med school students of our then five year old son explaining all the parts of the ear and what they do. I don’t think he was a prodigy though he was quite precocious. He impressed his preschool class at four by bringing in the anatomy book at show and tell and explaining all his favorite parts too. He certainly wasn’t a teacher. By the way, his early interest in anatomy gave way to computer programming a couple of years later.</p>
<p>corranged:</p>
<p>I agree that having perfect pitch is not a sign of musical giftedness. Exhibit #1 would be my son!</p>
<p>He did love music at a very early age (a few months), being surrounded by classical music at home. I would never have labelled him a musical prodigy even though he could recognize the slow movement of Beethoven’s 7th before he could talk (He would cry until we put on the right music). But as he grew older, and despite continuous music lessons, his musical abilities did not develop. Maybe it was due to his lack of practice; who knows? I suspect his trajectory is a very common one. </p>
<p>To get back to the OP’s query, the sticking point seems to be that on the basis of one O-level, the OP thinks his son should be at university. As many have pointed out, it takes more than one O-level to even progress to A-levels, and American universities, like British ones, generally expect at least 3, and with an appropriate score (e.g, a C won’t do).</p>
<p>But could Ainan’s precocious love of chemistry be accommodated in different ways? That is what several posters tried to address. Online classes, virtual labs, strengthening associated fields of study such as math and physics, these are all worth looking into.</p>
<p>Hey, this may already be addressed, but a lot of you are posting syllabi from schools like MIT and Harvard to demonstrate “American college texts,” but I would assume that top tier schools like those would naturally have more difficult coursework; how about posting a text from a state school? Or a community college? I believe nearly half of high school students who go to college go on to community college?</p>
<p>It seems as if everyone on this board is indulging this incredible urge to prove Valentine wrong and get him to admit it. Honestly, some of you are like vultures…does it matter if he overestimates the abilities of his children? Only if he ends up pushing them too hard because of it. But it doesn’t seem like many of you are ‘looking out for the child’ any more than you are taking pleasure in denigrating his father. Just relax. I doubt you are doing any good, so why don’t you just stop?</p>
<p>Someone said “you’ve got a smart kid.”
Honestly, someone like me could qualify as “a smart kid.” If Ainan is doing HS level work at the age of 7, he’s a bit more than just “a smart kid.”</p>
<p>Keshira:</p>
<p>I am posting syllabi from Harvard and MIT I am familiar with their websites.</p>
<p>To me it does not matter whether someone is a prodigy, gifted, smart or bright; labels are not important. What is important is the most appropriate education for the individual student.</p>
<p>Why should a 7-year old settle for attending a mediocre college when there is plenty of time for him to prepare himself for a rigorous one? It’s not as if he is running out of time. You ought to check out the thread by a student who is not able to transfer into a top college because she has too many cc credits. And please, there are lots of excellent community colleges with very demanding standards. </p>
<p>But frankly, attending college is out of the question for a student of whatever age on the basis of a solitary O level. Taking one college class, however, can be done. But that does not seem to be what the OP wants for his son.</p>
<p>Keshira,</p>
<p>some pages back somebody( calmom, I think) posted the entrance reqs for George Washington University in DC. They were more or less the same as Harvard’s and MIT’s. Definitely some A-levels( more than one) were needed to be accepted.</p>
<p>P.S. Found it:7-8 GCSEs (O Levels) with grades of A-C and predicted A Level results in at least 3 subjects. Up to 6-8 credits awarded for A level grades of A-E awarded; CXCs with grades of 1 or 2
See: The George Washington University — Admissions</p>
<p>I agree with much of Corranged’s post, but not that “most smart people can play music well”. While most musicians happen to be smart people, it doesn’t mean that intelligence necessarily determines musicality.</p>
<p>True musical prodigiousness is quite rare, but I can hear natural musicality in a child as young as six. I don’t think one can become a superb musician without natural musicality; one can practice to his heart’s content, and the deficit in natural musicality will be evident (to those who can hear these things…to lay ears, it won’t be). So, while a young child won’t necessarily play with the “depth” that Corranged mentions, his musicality, feel for music, etc. will still be still evident. </p>
<p>In addition, people with exceptional talent and musicality tend to need to practice significantly less than those without such gifts. However, without practice, even those with the gift of musicality will not develop to their true potential.</p>
<p>
Oh, my daughter preferred Mozart – she wouldn’t stop crying unless we played Don Giovanni. I think I figured that out when she was about 3 weeks old. It was not long after that I discovered that it did not matter what version or form she heard the music – that is, she would recognize her favorite classical themes no matter what the instrument or setting, with or without vocal accompaniment. </p>
<p>(Note - the movement you referenced in Beethoven’s 7th is one of my favorites, which I listened to constantly through my pregnancy with my son. However, he showed almost no interest whatsoever in music as a child and definitely no talent for it.)</p>
<p>My daughter became a dancer, not a musician … and if we are going to talk about prodigiousness… well she was dancing in utero. I could not go to a live musical performance after my 5th month of pregnancy without getting kicked to pieces from the inside. </p>
<p>She also could reproduce any melody she heard on a kid’s piano or xylophone at age 2 or 3, starting with any note in any key. </p>
<p>Yawn.</p>
<p>I believe that many children are born with the potential for perfect pitch but this is lost if not nurtured early on, in the same way children lose the ability to distinguish sounds of languages other than the ones they are exposed to. There’s some good scientific evidence to support this belief, partly from research done on people who speak tonal languages-- they demonstrate absolute pitch at least for the significant tones of their own language. </p>
<p>Daniel Levitin’s book “This is Your Brain on Music” is a fascinating read for anyone interested in music and the human mental potential. It is quite amazing what the human brain can do when it comes to music, though I also found the little report of [the</a> study with owl-brains](<a href=“http://completelycoloratura.blogspot.com/2007/02/acoustics-owls-and-blue-danube.html]the”>http://completelycoloratura.blogspot.com/2007/02/acoustics-owls-and-blue-danube.html) equally astonishing. </p>
<p>It’s wonderful when our kids have a good ear for music early on coupled with the interest and inner discipline to develop that talent; but I’m not sure that that the innate ability to distinguish pitch is as rare some might think.</p>