We did take our kids to amusement parks and zoos when they were very young but it can certainly be exhausting. With young children, I think you really need one on one adult to child supervision if at all possible in such a stimulating environment. I only had two kids and did occasionally take both by myself to the zoo, when the youngest was in a stroller. But , definitely easier when more than one adult is keeping an eye out. Not sure how many of her kids the mom had with her and whether or not she had any help with them? It’ can be tough if a kid wants to run around but you have other kids to keep track of as well. Very sad outcome for what I’m sure was supposed to be a fun family outing.
There is a difference between someone saying, “I don’t like leashes” vs “I disapprove of you using leashes.” The first is expressing their position on a subject in a general way, the second is being judgmental.
If you re-read the posts you’re objecting to, you’ll see that they were using that first, non-judgmental phrasing. You were not being attacked.
One additional reason why there’s outrage beyond the perceived negligence of the parent(s) in question is the fact an innocent living being without any intent was killed. And some posting here don’t seem to assign the requisite amount of weight to that factor.
While this decision may have been necessary, the parent’s facebook post which showed no reference to the fact an innocent being was killed in the somber apologetic tone some would feel would be appropriate and instead, minimized parental responsibility by saying “it’s an accident” rubbed many the wrong way.
It may be a generational difference, but I recalled how many reasonable parents in my old neighborhood whether immigrants or multi-generationed Americans would have focused more on apologizing to those who were inconvenienced/hurt by their child’s misbehavior/actions even if it was an accident/innocuous rather than ignoring the inconvenience/hurt to others and striking a tone which some may take as a way to excuse what happened.
Anomander… I don’t disagree with you.
I posted a personal experience explaining why I have no problem with leashes ( which actually agrees with the linked article) Maybe I didn’t word it correctly but I was sincerely wanting to know what the objection is as I think strollers are more constraining and restrictive.
The very next post starts with
“I might argue that a 1 and 3 year old are probably too young to enjoy Busch Gardens.”
Since I’m the only one that posted that I took a 1 and 3 year old to Busch Gardens then yes that was judge mental against me.
More news. The comments to the article are even more interesting. I don’t know why anyone would consider offering them money. I am hearing different reports. One says she was taking a picture before she realized he was missing the other report said she was taking care of another child.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family-of-boy-who-fell-into-gorilla-exhibit-asks-for-zoo-donations-in-animal%e2%80%99s-memory/ar-BBtKjGS?li=BBnb7Kz
I am so over misleading headlines! The headline makes it seem as if the family is proactively asking for zoo donations. No, the family has been offered money, which they have rejected, and told donors to give to the zoo.
I did buy a harness and bring it with us when we went to Disneyland. We had two kids who were two years apart and I told the younger one (Ms Houdini) that she would have to wear it if she didn’t stick with me like glue. She and her brother stuck with me, so it wasn’t needed, but I feel they are invaluable when needed.
If my kids were impulsive in public places, I’d have used a toddler leash. They are now teen/preteen and still barely leave my side in public.
The few occasions they did something potentially dangerous as toddlers happened in our house or a neighbor/family yard. I’m pretty sure it would be abusive to use a toddler leash every waking moment.
I don’t like leashes and feel they are unneccesary if children are supervised properly, taught self control, and not subjected to situations unsuitable to their ages and mental maturity. I would argue that amusement parks like Busch Gardens might not be appropriate for many 1 and 3 year olds as I think a full day can be exhausting and overstimulating for many of them and I don’t think they get a lot out of the experience at that age. If you have to use a leash, maybe its best to wait until they are older IMO.
^There. That is my opinion restated as it was meant in the context of why I don’t like leashes. I can see reasons to use them if a child has legitimate, medical issues with impulsiveness and control.
As far as the stroller vs. leash question, I also don’t see strollers as a means of controlling children but as a means of conveying tiny legs and tired bodies from one place to another in a convenient and expeditious manner.
We took our kids to Disney World when they were about 2 and 5. My husband had a conference in Orlando. But, my sister came with us and she and I took them to the parks during the day. It was fun but exhausting. They actually did seem to have fun and we have some great pictures of them from that trip. Did they get as much out of it as when they went to places like that than when they were older? Probably not. But I don’t really regret we did it either.
My kids didn’t need leashes. But I’m not sure I can take credit for that, nor am I sure that people who find them useful need to take any blame for it.
Implicit is the judgment that if you use a leash, your children have not been taught self control or supervised properly.
I never used a leash but geez, as the mother of twins I only have so many eyes and hands and I can see the need! Once children start walking, they enter this scary age where they need to move and they have no logic and only a limited understanding of someone saying “no”. For that age and for parents who have to have something in their other hand, I can say please use a leash if it helps you get through the day safely.
I don’t like pacifiers and baby swings either but the constant drain of energy on parents make those absolute godsends at times. Just don’t drug your kids - that’s where I draw the line.
@greenwitch I really admire those of you with twins. Can’t even imagine what it would be like with triples, or quads, or even more!
When I was in s mothers of multiples club, they sold leashes. I didn’t use them because I had pretty docile kids who were happy to stay in strollers, but I certainly was not about to judge the mom of 2-year-old quads who used a leash-like contraption to keep them safe in parking lots.
As for the gorilla, it’s a shame that he died but get real, how many cows, chickens, pigs and sheep are lying dead in every single supermarket in this country. They’re just not as cute. I’m sorry, the safety of a kid trumps the gorilla as far as I am concerned. No different from putting down a dog who growls and is aggressive to children.
Major difference is the child in question deliberately opted to go into the gorilla enclosure and negotiated barriers which kept out children for nearly 4 decades before this incident when the mother wasn’t being attentive despite having prior warning of the kid’s desire to go into the enclosure. Kid was the one who entered the gorilla’s home/exhibit area and thus…the instigator whether he knew/meant it or not.
Even so, Harambe was calm and acting protective at first. He only became agitated when the onlookers shouted which escalated the provocation as shown in the video.
That’s not to second-guess the zoo’s actions as they were ultimately left with no choice.
However, I don’t believe in this instance the child/parent nor the onlookers should get a free pass from the responsibility for instigating and/or escalating the situation to the point the shot had to be taken. Moreover, for this reason and the fact the zoo’s protective measures were apparently compliant with all Federal regulations/codes, it would be IMO quite crass if the mother/family attempts to sue the zoo for the incident.
@pizzagirl:
The reason people are upset is that a Gorllia is an endangered species, and also is a very close relative to human beings. There just isn’t the same impact if a dog has to be put down, or a cow or pig killed for its meat, it is analagous to the mona lisa being destroyed versus a black velvet painting of dogs playing poker. That doesn’t mean that what the Zoo did was wrong, I think the decision to kill the Gorilla was the right one, I think people are bemoaning the loss of something very rare, but in the end I suspect most people realize that the child is more valuable, no different then putting down a dog that you love who is a threat to your kids.
That and the fact this entire incident was instigated by human provocation/stupidity…and I’m including the actions of the screaming onlookers who IMO are equally/possibly more responsible for escalating the incident to the point the zoo had no choice.
I get that folks are bemoaning the fact an endangered species was lost, but I dont get folks signing a petition to have her investigated, and possible having her kids removed. I saw the woman who started the petition being interviewed on MSNBC today, and I have no words.
Many in the media, and on this thread pick and choose the bystanders they want to believe. There is a bystander who says the boy said he wanted to in the exhibit, so everyone takes that as fact. Yet, as there a couple of bystanders who said the woman was watching her son, and she did nothing wrong, yet their accounts are totally discounted.
IMO, taking her kids away for this one instance goes too far unless there are other previous incidents which combine to create a pattern of seriously negligent parenting. There’s no evidence of that.
However, I do believe she should be held accountable for her son’s actions in deliberately going into the enclosure through some sort of a administrative reprimand and possibly some community service at the zoo.
And I believe there should be some critical discussion and yes…criticism of the onlookers’ conduct which most experts on gorillas I’ve read stated escalated the incident. Worst thing one can do in tense situations is to continue and increase the level of screaming/yelling from what they’ve written.