I am 59. I am beyond the stage of life anyone gives me trouble about anything.
In my opinion, it is great you are questioning societal norms. I just want you to think it through to the next step, if you care to. If you don’t, that is fine, too. As I wrote, this is some of my favorite stuff to think about. BB and I have been on some great threads: sweatsuits and so on.
^^Why would people give me any trouble about something they don’t see? 
I think leg and armpit shaving is stupid, even though armpit shaving has some functionality (it has to do with… you guessed it, decreasing smell - hair traps oils and sweat and thus creates perfectly moist environment for odor-causing bacteria).
Alh, and I appreciate it. These are some of my favorite threads too, because they do make me think! I truly love the discussion!
“I am 59. I am beyond the stage of life anyone gives me trouble about anything.” <-- I like that
I perspire so very rarely that really isn’t an issue for me. If it was, I might shave. I am very lucky in not having to use deodorant, because that feels yucky to me, too!
I used to shave my leg hair in high school and college. I don’t any more. I agree with BB -find it senseless. I have lighter hair, though not invisible, so maybe that kind of made it easier for me to stop (again, unfortunately not immune to social pressure).
Deodorant does feel yucky! Unfortunately, with no deodorant, I do smell… So I can only really not wear it in my outdoor adventures, when everyone is smelly and no one minds 
Okay. Three people are sitting around in a cave. One of them notices smashed berries make a pretty color and smears some on his/her arms in a pattern. Someone else figures out how to braid hair into patterns. What do we think? The beginning of the decline of serious civilization?
“decorate myself in other ways” oh, I just love that idea…that we are adorning ourselves! well played
Do you think women feel all this societal/peer/personal pressure to meet a certain expectation of beauty because we value women’s youth the most? or is it simply women are more detail-oriented? Will there ever be a time at the Oscar red carpet where someone just says Helen Mirren looks great, without the “for her age” qualifier? That phrase smacks of “we expected her to just throw in the towel since there’s no reproductive potential here, so why bother”.
ruminating, indeed. With subzero temps and ITS SNOWING AGAIN , what else do I have to ponder 
I think young women are truly lovely, but they look - well - young. Young is not all that interesting to me. (apologies acollegestudent) I don’t want to look young. I aspire to Georgia O’Keeffe’s wrinkles. It has recently occurred to me I may never have those wrinkles because I have kept out of the sun and she did not. I am feeling a little blue about that. However, I do have gray hair going to white and that makes me quite pleased. I have always wanted to be a very elegant old woman.
However, it’s fine with me if you want to maintain a more youthful look. When women do whatever makes them happy, with regards to appearance, the results are usually charming. imho.
I have always thought when baby boomers got old, old was going to be cool. We have Didion and Mitchell in the fashion mags this month. I thought the point was, we want to be them?
You can have my wrinkles, alh.
I think this is kind of funny in light of all rhe tattoos people have nowadays. I bet some of the people who gnash their teeth over the “artificiality” of makeup would fawn over tattoos - which also fundamentally serve a decorative / aesthetic end, not a grooming one.
And when someone says “paint and spackle,” that just tells me no one ever taught them how to do it right. There’s no planet on which a touch of lipgloss or blush looks like “paint and spackle,”. Maybe applying foundation thickly all over one’s face looks that way. People who are inexperienced tend to apply way too much and wonder why it looks fake.
Makeup doesn’t even remotely signal that I’m unacceptable the way I am. Any more than wearing a piece of jewelry says that I’m unacceptable with a bare neck or fingers or wrist.
I have a coworker who dresses in an artsy, bohemian style. Several piercings. Artfully draped scarves, great use of color, flowing skirts. It is not my personal style but she looks great. I admire her artistic flair (she is a graphics artist by training).
How is wearing artfully chosen clothing appreciably different from makeup?
Alh - love your post 105. People have always either “decorated”/enhanced themselves and their surroundings. The particulars vary over time and through culture, that’s all. Smashed berries, hair braiding, piercings, kohl, henna, color applied to skin, etc
I do think it’s interesting how in tattoo threads, we are told that tattoos are a means of self expression (which of course is true) but now somehow makeup can’t be, it’s only to “fix” or cover what society says is broken or imperfect. That seems inconsistent to me. Why can’t both be for personal enjoyment and / or expression?
And what’s with the sanctimony that it’s wrong and superficial to enhance your appearance? If you wear glasses, do you pick any old pair, or do you select a pair that looks good on you over a pair that doesn’t look as good on you? Do you wear your hair any old way, or do you wear it in a way that you personally find aesthetically pleasing or flattering?
We have had a style lately of uncombed, bed head, sexy hair. That is a new norm in some circles. It isn’t any more natural than combing, imho. Sometimes it seems to be a pretty labor intensive look.
Even those who roll out of bed in the morning without combing their hair or using deodorant and putting on a sweatsuit before heading out into the streets, are making conscious choices about their personal presentation. We all wear costumes. It is unavoidable.
I don’t think one look is better than another. I like all the looks. The more looks, the more interesting the world is to me. Of course, a line of children dressed in uniforms walking down the street is also a wonderful look. So are those Korean Air flight attendants walking together through the airport. It just makes me happy to watch them.
How is enhancing one’s face w makeup any different than enhancing one’s body w flattering clothes?
Clothes don’t change your skin color or shape (unless they are shapers, I I guess). Makeup does alter color (lipstick) /size (mascara) of your features. To me, that’s the difference.
Again, no issue with people who like it - but that’s the reason I personally don’t.
Pizzagirl, the anti-makeup arguments seem to center the fact that makeup alters one’s face. Altering body shape with the help of a bra or a shaping garment seem to fall into the same category, apparently. I do not find that persuasive, and it puzzles me - why is ok to alter one’s face with a piercing or tattoo, yet a slight application of eye shadow is considered “kabuki theater makeup”?
For people who don’t think of makeup as a means for artistic self-expression, I encourage you to talk to Goths. They would want to set that record straight.
I like the idea of make up as artistic self-expression. I just don’t like it as a way to enhance one’s looks.
Please define “enhancing one’s looks”
Haha, using it as as a way to appear more attractive to the opposite gender (or the same gender) or to make oneself look more like the societal idea of beauty.
"Do you think women feel all this societal/peer/personal pressure to meet a certain expectation of beauty because we value women’s youth the most? "
I think you’re deliberately refusing to hear that some women do so be ause they find it fun / playful / artful / self-expressive - inner-driven - and it has nothing to do with fearing that one doesn’t measure up in the eyes of others - outer-driven.
I just got off a plane where I sat behind a young African-American man with his hair in dreadlocks. He was stunning looking. Again, not my personal taste, but his hair style choice enhanced his features and projected a look. Isn’t that, in a sense, his “makeup” equivalent? What’s the difference? Is he “superficial”, shallow, vain, overly worried about what others think - or did he merely follow his own North Star?
I think if anything it’s insulting to women to suggest that they could only make choices borne out of fear and insecurity.