<p>ff, nothing in post #85 responds to the point I was trying to make – that Iraq will disintegrate further when we leave, whether we leave tomorrow, in a year, or in 5 years. If the “projections” allege that that isn’t true, let’s hear about it.</p>
<p>It’s a problem we partially caused, but that says nothing about whether it’s a problem we can fix. We can’t fix it. At this point, America cannot stop Iraqis from killing each other unless we kill them all ourselves.</p>
<p>An deaths just spiked again this weekend!</p>
<p>Short term numbers do not a long term trend make.</p>
<p>60 civilian deaths in Baghdad yesterday, as well as two American troops.</p>
<p>Downed helicopter in Afganistan also claimed the life of several.</p>
<p>Ain’t war grand?</p>
<p>Allmusic and originaloog, I can just sense your sympathy for those people. Or is it glee that you feel your point is made? Just another example of how you enjoy bad news for this country.</p>
<p>The glee is unmistakable–also revolting.</p>
<p>Sjmom–For the zillionth time: None of us are gleeful over bad news for our country, or for Iraq. There’s a huge difference between “glee” and “despair.” Nothing in this war inspires glee. It is a tragedy and a travesty. … To say that the anti-Iraq-war folks are gleeful over bad news regarding our soldiers is as ridiculous as saying that pro-war people despise our soldiers and want them to die. … As for feeling sympathy for the Iraqis, indeed I do. We all should. Not for the hate-filled terrorists we’re helping to create, but for the innocent people who are butchered every day in Bush’s immoral war.</p>
<p>I agree HH. The “glee” is revolting. Those people who support our morally bankrupt president and his murderous, unnecessary war, must get a kick out of reading daily AP dispatches like this one from this morning:</p>
<p>BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents launched an attack on a U.S. combat post on Monday, sending in a suicide bomber and clashing with American troops, the military and residents said. Two U.S. soldiers were killed and 17 wounded, the military said.
The assault began with a suicide bomber exploding a vehicle outside the base north of Baghdad, said the military statement. It gave no further details beyond the number of dead and wounded. Residents said U.S. forces fought with insurgents after the suicide bomber tried to break through barriers around the base.
The attack came on a day when a string of car bombings and other attacks claimed nearly 30 civilian lives in Baghdad and elsewhere.
In Baghdad, five people were killed when a suicide attacker detonated a bomb-rigged belt …</p>
<p>
This would be a bit more believable if there were ANY expressions of joy for the good news that does occasionally seep out of Iraq. Did we see any expressions of joy when the Hussein boys were eliminated? Or Saddam captured? Or Zarqawi killed? Or when tribal chiefs started to make war on al Qaeda? Or the early days of hope as the constitution was being written, elections held and a new democratic government installed?</p>
<p>Nope … all of this was met with deafening silence from the left. Actually, silence was the best that came out; as I recall, the death of Zarqawi was met with criticism from the leading Dems.</p>
<p>So, pardon our skepticism about any claims of feeling sad about the bad events that are publicized. If there is any, it is dwarfed by the sense of glee that comes from the ability to say “I told you so”.</p>
<p>It sounds to me like the OP, sjmom, was the one that was gleeful with her post indicating that the surge was working and that overnight there were “only” 10 bodies in the morgue. She, unfortunately, was a victim of propaganda - would not be surprised if this story somehow originated in the Rove spin factory.</p>
<p>I will happily admit to glee at any good news from Iraq. I celebrate any reduction in the loss of life, and I’m proud of that attitude. But I can’t stand how so many of you are so quick to rebuke that fact and how you can’t wait to point out that more civilians died. It makes me sick.</p>
<p>What fact?</p>
<p>SJ, the only glee I will feel about this war will be the day the last American service person is on a plane or boat home.</p>
<p>There IS no reduction in violence. Read your hometown paper. 60 civilian deaths yesterday. I feel despair about death and violence, and more despair that our president cares so little for human life that he is going to send more soldiers to die.</p>
<p>Glee? You and HH are delusional. And sorry for that ad hominem, but is was clearly deserved.</p>
<p>I make a comment based on facts and you interpret that a glee? How dare you! I probably doing more than most here to bring a sense of understanding to the situation the world finds itself in today.</p>
<p>I participate in an interfaith group which brings together Christians, Jews and Muslims together for dialogue. We have sponsored programs in mosques, synagogs and churches. We have sponsored very successful fundraisers for the Katrina, tsunami and Pakistan earthquate disaster victims. Hey, we have even met with Daniel Pipes to discuss his writings and suggest some modification in terminology he should be using w/r to Muslims. Not the content, but some of the terminology.</p>
<p>While I do disagree with the President’s war strategy which even many conservatives are now condemning, I hope any decisions he makes as CiC are successful in bringing stability to the people in Iraq and Afghanistan and allow our fighting forces to withdraw from those countries.</p>
<p>And yes I am thankful that the President seems to have negotiated a deal with NKorea which I hope will be a long term success.</p>
<p>FF–Saddam and Zarqawi were evil and I’m glad they’re dead, but that doesn’t mean we should have invaded Iraq. Why don’t we invade Saudi Arabia and kill members of the royal family there? They harbor terrorists and encourage religious anti-American fanaticism. And Iran? Of course, that’s next on Bush’s agenda. … The Indians and Pakistanis are slaughtering each other again–perhaps we should occupy those countries to set things right. And wouldn’t it be wonderful to make things better in Somalia? While we’re at it we can send some troops to Venezuela to depose Chavez. Where would it end? Honestly, ff, it’s not the people who oppose war who are gleeful.</p>
<p>“Honestly, ff, it’s not the people who oppose war who are gleeful.”</p>
<p>Like I said, this would be more believable if they would have expressed joy at the good news that does come out.</p>
<p>The people who profit from the corporate war machine may be the most gleeful. After all, they are about the only ones who have benefited from this horrific misadventure.</p>
<p>“Like I said, this would be more believable if they would have expressed joy at the good news that does come out.”
The best news would be if we had never invaded Iraq to begin with. Also good news–bringing our soldiers home so that they would no longer have to kill and be killed in a civil war that Bush’s aggression ignited.</p>
<p>The reason the conservatives on CC and elsewhere use words like “glee” and “rejoicing” and “celebrating” to describe the mere reporting of deaths in Iraq and any commentary on those deaths is because those words, in this context, are clearly pejorative. Who would express happiness or joy at the news of civilian or military deaths in Iraq?? Only loathsome degenerate weasels who don’t care about their country and want to see America fail. This is an easy, brainless, baseless slander against anyone who brings attention to the pointless toll this stupidly conceived war has taken. That’s why they will continue to call it “glee” when it’s not glee or “celebrating” when it’s not and they know it’s not. It’s just slime. It makes me queasy.</p>
<p>Why would I believe any “gnus” (which brings either “glee” or handwringing) that emanates from the pork munchers in the Green Zone? What have they done to establish ANYTHING in the way of credibility? :eek:</p>
<p>(There is news I can count on:</p>
<p><a href=“HAL Interactive Stock Chart | Halliburton Company Stock - Yahoo Finance”>HAL Interactive Stock Chart | Halliburton Company Stock - Yahoo Finance; )</p>
<p>“this would be more believable if they would have expressed joy at the good news that does come out.”</p>
<p>Joy? You think we should be feeling joy?</p>
<p>Let’s say my mother got hit by a car. She’s lying in intensive care, in a coma due to brain swelling. Occasionally we hear some good news about her other injuries that have nothing to do with whether she lives or dies. So when the doctor tells me, “Hey, great news, we fixed her broken leg and it’s going to heal up just fine,” you think I’m supposed to feel joy? And if I fail to express joy over her leg, then that’s proof that I’m actually glad that my mom is hurt?</p>
<p>Sorry, my mom’s in a coma, and Iraq is a quagmire of violence and death. You can give me all the good news you want about how my mom’s legs are fine, but I’m not going to feel joy – or anything much besides indifference – unless I hear “she’s responding to speech” and “she squeezed my hand,” because those mean that she’s coming out of the coma. Have we heard any convincing news from Iraq that similarly told us that the violence was ending and our troops will be coming home safe? I don’t expect to feel joy until we get that news.</p>