Claim Karl Rove was leak in CIA outing

Parent Cafe
121

<p>Patuxent,</p>

<p>Should we likewise smear members of the conservative Catholic organization Opus Dei (like Anton Scalia, for example) because Robert Phillip Hansson, the famous FBI mole and Soviet spy, donated money to that organization?</p>

122

<p>Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot that Republican’s would never attack Democrats when they feel they’ve done something wrong. How un=American to criticize those in power and try to find out the truth about this war our kids are fighting. What was I thinking?</p>

<p>This issue is not an attack on Republicans. (plenty of dems supported going into Iraq on false evidence) This is trying to get at the truth about how we managed to get into this war. If our kids have to fight in it, I think we’re entitled to more than lies and cover ups.I just don’t like being lied to about going to war, and then being expected to suck it up. It offends me.
I’m sure Ames,s 5 grand bought a lot of ad time - what, like 3 minutes? And how is this relevant to the subject at hand? Rove’s deception was not an election move like the swift boat ads, or a Rep. Committie dirty trick. He was acting as a WhiteHouse official. He’s now in the cabinet of the President of the United States. He has a top security clearance and is informed of the most guarded intelligence regarding national security.
But as a citizen, I’m just supposed to cheerfully send my kids off war and not question. Not ask why, or how we got here - this war we can’t leave and can’t win.</p>

123

<p>That sure came out of left field…Aldridge Ames…that is relevant how? Aldrige Aims was a bad person…oh my, that was a revelation…I am sure that no criminals have ever ever ever given any money to the republicans…</p>

<p>And as for attacking the ethics of Republicans…what is wrong with that?</p>

124

<p>Speaking as someone who is neither a Democrat nor a Republican, what does that have to do with the acts of the Deputy Chief of Staff?</p>

125

<p>“Seriously, does anyone who would identify a CIA agent to a report without knowing whether she was a covert agent deserve to have a top secret security clearance?”</p>

<p>Re-read Cooper’s notes. Read what he wrote after the conversation with Rove:

</p>

<p>This is what people claim was the result of “officials [being] engaged in an aggressive and organized effort to discredit Wilson by claiming that his mission to Niger was a result of nepotism”. Rove wasn’t trying to out anyone. He wasn’t even trying to claim nepotism. He was trying to show that Wilson lied on this and several points in his article in the Post. He was blowing the whistle on the so called whistle blower.</p>

126

<p>Did you know that Rove’s attorney Luskin got paid by one client in gold bars? Now that I find a fun little piece of trivia</p>

127

<p>“what does that have to do with the acts of the Deputy Chief of Staff?”</p>

<p>Only indicates that liberals don’t get all the exercised about treason if there is something in it for them. In fact if the treason involved the purloined classified documents now know as the Pentagon Papers they can construe treason as a moral imperative.</p>

128

<p>And what does that have to do with the acts of the Deputy Chief of Staff?</p>

129

<p>Patuxent,</p>

<p>You’re seriously comparing Rove to Ames? </p>

<p>Treason’s punishable by death. I haven’t accused Rove of treason. I’ve stated that he may have committed a felony, and that if he didn’t, he skated awfully close to the line, and that that at the very least he may have negligently endangered the lives of people who are providing information with the potential to spare millions of lives. </p>

<p>I’m saying that if George W. Bush were a man of his word, he would have already fired Rove for leaking, as his father once did. </p>

<p>There isn’t a liberal in the United States who wanted to spare Ames because he may have donated money to the DNC, just like there isn’t a conservative in the US who wanted to spare Hansson because he was a member of Opus Dei, and had right-to-life bumper stickers on his car.</p>

130

<p>There is a strategy often used by people when they cannot defend their position, they try and deflect the conversation to other issues to somehow not make what they are defending seem so bad…classic actions…</p>

<p>and then there is a flaying around and blaming a certain group of people for all ills of society and for not being perfect. </p>

<p>When that happens, you know you have got them…they have resorted to deflection</p>

<p>ie: lets bring in Ames because it will make Rove look less bad, lets say that LIBERALS have done worse things…</p>

<p>But lets NOT talk about what Rove has done, and what promise the president made with regards to the person who outed Plame. </p>

<p>As Gomer Pyle has said “Suprise Suprise Suprise” lets blame some liberals</p>

131

<p><a href=“http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?040209fr_archive02[/url]”>http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?040209fr_archive02&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

132

<p>Thanks for posting that article, hayden. Very informative!</p>

133

<p>I think I brought Ames into the conversation. The CIA believed that he had outed Plame in 1997 which is why she was working a desk in DC. Not very covertly either:</p>

<p>

Clifford D. May, National Review, September 29, 2003</p>

<p>“But lets NOT talk about what Rove has done, and what promise the president made with regards to the person who outed Plame.”</p>

<p>OK, let’s talk about Rove has been shown to have been done, not the hopeful fantasy. According to Cooper, the conversation in which he received information about Plame turned to the misrepresentations in Joe Wilson’s story and offered that Wilson’s story, that he had been asked by Tenet and Cheney to look into the Niger story ,was false. Rove apparently told Cooper that it was “Wilson’s wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd issues who authorized the trip”.</p>

<p>Cooper didn’t hear Rove say that Plame (let’s ignore whether or not naming names matters) was a covert agent as Wilson has claimed in many, many interviews. See what Cooper wrote in the quote above.</p>

<p>So far that’s all we know. There are other rumors and conjectures. It’s claimed that Judy Miller may have told Rove about Plame (she wasn’t very covert – see the quote above). If Rove really did learn about Plame from classified materials, there’d be a paper trail showing that a political operative was looking into things that were none of his business, and I find it hard to believe that the CIA would cover up for him in this case. Finally, since the CIA believed Ames had outed Plame and brought her home to the US in 1997, she wouldn’t by legal definition a covert operative. You have to be outside the US within the past five years, not 6 as was the case when Novak published his column.</p>

<p>So what is it that you think Rove did, citygirlsmom? Is there anything we know that goes beyond “Rove is a bad, bad man and he should be punished”?</p>

134

<p>Strick, the CIA disagrees with you. Per Knight-Ridder article, 10/1/03:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>And before you snipe at CGM, I think the quote from Tim Russert yesterday is entirely accurate:

</p>

135

<p>I “sniped” a CGM because of her presumption of Rove’s guilt, which wouldn’t be the case if this were a Democrat (if this were a Democrat, it would be on page 22 of the NY Times and there wouldn’t be any thread on it).</p>

<p>Thing is, again, based on what’s in evidence, there’s strong reason to believe that Plame wasn’t outed, she was already known about DC as an employee of the CIA, that she no longer met the legal definition of a covert operative (I can quote the statute if you like), and that there’s no reason to believe Rove knew who she used to be in the CIA other than he’s an evil genius and they always know these things. If real evidence of some wrong doing comes to light, we can discuss that. Until then, well…</p>

<p>The real reason there’s an investigation, btw, is the huge uproar about all this, fueled largely by unsubstantiated and outrageous claims by Joe Wilson. It’s clear none of that was true, like so much of the story Wilson told.</p>

136

<p>TurdBlossom…so what is the nickname Bush now has for Karl Rove???</p>

137

<p>Strick writes:
OK, let’s talk about Rove has been shown to have been done, not the hopeful fantasy. According to Cooper, the conversation in which he received information about Plame TURNED TO THE MISREPRESENTATIONS IN WILSON’S STORY, THAT HE HAD BEEN ASKED BY TENET AND CHENEY TO LOOK INTO THE NIGER STORY, WAS FALSE [emphasis added]. Rove apparently told Cooper that it was “Wilson’s wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd issues who authorized the trip.”</p>

<p>Let’s compare what Joe Wilson actually said to what Cheney said later, and see if there are any actual misrepresentations:</p>

<p>Joe Wilson in the New York Times:
“In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake — a form of lightly processed ore — by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990’s. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office. “</p>

<p>And now for Dick Cheney on Meet the Press:
MR. RUSSERT: Now, Ambassador Joe Wilson, a year before that, was sent over by the CIA because you raised the question about uranium from Africa. He says he came back from Niger and said that, in fact, he could not find any documentation that, in fact, Niger had sent uranium to Iraq or engaged in that activity and reported it back to the proper channels. Were you briefed on his findings in February, March of 2002?
VICE PRES. CHENEY: No. I don’t know Joe Wilson. I’ve never met Joe Wilson. A question had arisen. I’d heard a report that the Iraqis had been trying to acquire uranium in Africa, Niger in particular. I get a daily brief on my own each day before I meet with the president to go through the intel. And I ask lots of question. One of the questions I asked at that particular time about this, I said, “What do we know about this?” They take the question. He came back within a day or two and said, “This is all we know. There’s a lot we don’t know,” end of statement. And Joe Wilson—I don’t who sent Joe Wilson. He never submitted a report that I ever saw when he came back.</p>

<p>Wilson says Cheney raised questions about Niger (which Cheney confirms, above, and that “CIA officials” (he didn’t say “the Director,” he said “officials”) asked him to investigate. Tenet released a statement confirming that on July 11, the same day Rove spoke to Cooper.</p>

<p>So where is the misrepresentation? Where is the falsehood? Does it depend on what “is” is?</p>

138

<p>“Is” is? You’ve got the wrong party for that line.</p>

<p>It’s clear that Wilson lied, but why take my word for it? Consider some quotes from what Spinsanity says about Joe Wilson.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2004_07_18_archive.html[/url]”>http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2004_07_18_archive.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>That make it clear what “is” is?</p>

139

<p>Let’s compare what Wilson and Cheney had to say on another aspect of this:</p>

<p>WILSON: Before I left Niger, I briefed the ambassador on my findings, which were consistent with her own. I also shared my conclusions with members of her staff. In early March, I arrived in Washington and promptly provided a detailed briefing to the C.I.A. I later shared my conclusions with the State Department African Affairs Bureau. There was nothing secret or earth-shattering in my report, just as there was nothing secret about my trip.
Though I did not file a written report, there should be at least four documents in United States government archives confirming my mission."</p>

<p>VICE PRES. CHENEY: No. I don’t know Joe Wilson. I’ve never met Joe Wilson. A question had arisen. I’d heard a report that the Iraqis had been trying to acquire uranium in Africa, Niger in particular. I get a daily brief on my own each day before I meet with the president to go through the intel. And I ask lots of question. One of the questions I asked at that particular time about this, I said, “What do we know about this?” They take the question. He came back within a day or two and said, “This is all we know. There’s a lot we don’t know,” end of statement. And Joe Wilson—I don’t who sent Joe Wilson. He never submitted a report that I ever saw when he came back.</p>

<p>Of course, Wilson’s big article in the New York Times states plainly that he didn’t file a written report. He gave oral briefings to four officials. Is it possible that the gist of Wilson’s briefings didn’t make it into those Cheney received? Cheney doesn’t explicitly deny having heard of Joe Wilson, or having heard about his findings. He employs the same old circumlocutions Rove is so fond of: “I don’t know Joe Wilson,” and “He never submitted a report that I ever saw when he came back.”</p>

140

<p>Given the proponderance of evidence that Wilson is dishonest (see above), why should I believe anything he said?</p>

<p>BTW, the bi-partisan Senate Intelligence Committee Report says that Wilson filed a report. Are they lying, too?</p>