***Class Of 2015 NMSF Qualifying Scores***

Paying for College Financial Aid (Need-Based, Merit Aid, Loans)
2601

<p>I cannot speak to the National Achievement Scholarship Program (for black students), as I do not know the specifics of that program. I am very familiar with the National Hispanic Recognition Program, as I have helped advise, as a volunteer, low-income Latino students at the public school my children attend. The NHRP has a few universities and colleges which recognize it as a program worth of some scholarship, but not many, and does not have the breadth and depth of institutional, academic, and corporate support. It just does not, do the comparisons yourself and you will see that. This is like telling children in low-income neighborhoods that their school buildings with peeling paint, crumbling walls, problematic plumbing, cracked windows, non-functioning or obsolete technology, and weeded fields, are just as good as the state-of-the-art, renovated school buildings across town. </p>

<p>There are also many special scholarship programs (see, for example, Berea College) for students from an Appalachian background, but we still see the merit in a lower state NMSF cutoff for that region.</p>

2602

<p>I have this thread to blame for getting in a little trouble with my D’s GC. Inspired by many of your efforts to wrest the NMSF news from less than cooperative principals and GC, I had sweet talked the principal into rooting through the GC mail while GC was in the hospital, all to no avail as she had already squirreled away the golden ticket. When GC finally called my D to her office yesterday to officially notify her, she commented that of course D must have already known of her status as I had coerced the principal into checking the mail. But I think she said it with a smile on her face, and D just laughed it off as yet another semi-embarrassing paternal folly. Besides, out a couple dozen NMSF at her school and probably others who were close to the mark, there’s no way I was the only parent hounding them for info, right? </p>

2603

<p>Well, @vistajay she got better didn’t she? :slight_smile: It’s not like you hacked into her email! The results belong to our kids not the school administrations - our kids are the ones who studied, took the test, will take or have taken the SAT and applying to colleges. I’m not sure why some of them act like they are doing us a favor sharing results that NMSC told them we were entitled to get a heads-up on. </p>

2604

<p>And for those of us paying $40k a year tuition, you would think that they would be a little more helpful…</p>

2605

<p>I hate to post this, but I found out second-hand this morning (off-the-record) that NJ is also staying at 224. It is absolutely nuts that only DC and NJ won’t go down, and that every other state plus the Commended cut will, but that’s where we are at. My source is 99% reliable but trust me NJ Moms, I held onto that 1% until I was told by a more direct source myself. :(</p>

2606

<p>I suspect that we’re going to end up seeing several other states that stay at the same cutoff level as last year. Nothing is “official” yet, but the unofficial cutoff for MN I believe is the same as last year, and many of our unconfirmed states are still currently above last year’s cutoffs. I agree that it stinks for some state cutoffs to stay the same when many others have gone done by at least a few points, but hopefully we won’t see the odd state that actually goes up in a year like this. And as someone else mentioned upthread…who knows if any of these numbers will mean anything starting next year. Imagine going through all of this with no historical data “tea leaves” to read!! But maybe that could be a good thing…who knows?</p>

<p>@Illinoisan…I can see you’re passionate about wanting quality educational opportunities for Hispanic students and I completely agree with you on that…but I ABSOLUTELY disagree with you (and take a little exception) to your characterization of the schools offering large dollar to full-ride level scholarships to NHRP students as somehow “sub-standard” because you label them as second or third tier schools. Are you seriously suggesting that you would advise one of the low-income Hispanic students you work with that a full-ride NHRP scholarship to a flagship level school like Mississippi State is somehow the equivalent of

. </p>

<p>Really?? If so, I could find dozens if not hundreds of kids in our school system that would GLADLY take that “lower tier” opportunity off of their hands.</p>

<p>We too have taught our children to be good citizens and to understand that there are always those who are less fortunate, but we’ve also taught them to be honored by and respectful of EVERY opportunity they have. And we were able to impart those values to them despite the fact that we graduated from a university that wouldn’t even qualify as fifth tier on your ranking scale…a university we were appreciative of the opportunity to attend. YMMV</p>

<p>ETA: The MSU scholarship is full tuition and books, not full ride as I initially thought…but my question still stands.</p>

2607

<p>I mean no disrespect to any college or university, even if I have labeled them second-- or third-tier (or alternatively, second- or third-choice) schools. That is simply an honest statement. There are Colleges and Universities that are considered the very, very top all over the World (e.g., Harvard or Oxford or the Sorbonne), and then there are Colleges and Universities that are considered slightly below those, including Mississippi State. I do not look down on Mississippi State or any similar College or University. Here is a fact that you did not understand about me, my mother never attended college, and I am a graduate of community college, and now my daughter is the first in our family to score mid-2300+ on her SAT. so I am in no position, nor would I ever, look down on any college or university.</p>

<p>When I made the “peeling paint, crumbling walls, problematic plumbing, cracked windows, and non-functioning or obsolete technology” analogy I meant simply this, the National Merit Program’s prestige, funding, depth of corporate and institutional support, and depth and breadth of college and university participation is in NO WAY comparable to the National Hispanic Recognition Program’s prestige, funding, depth of corporate and institutional support, and depth and breadth of college and university participation. I just is not, and that is a fact.</p>

<p>While you are certainly right that a school like Mississippi State or FIU would be an excellent, incredible, prestigious opportunity for a bright low-income URM student, or for any student for that matter, there is issue of choice. I have also taught my children to be appreciative of everything , and never look down on any opportunity. However, the more choices you have, and the more opportunities you have (as you will as a NMSF/NMF student versus a NHRP student), the better off you will be because you can choose the College or University that is best suited to your talents, strengths, and pursuits. </p>

<p>You are essentially telling bright, low-income URM students from those States with the very highest NMSF cutoffs (DC, NJ, CA, MD – and ALL of these States or District have high, low-income URM representation) that they should be happy with their more limited choice, and happy with their more limited funding because you should simply be “honored and respectful of EVEY opportunity you have.” That is true, but a very bright, low-income NHRP, Latino student who scores a 218 on the PSAT in California will simply not have as many good choices, or as much funding, available to them as any NMSF-qualifying student who scores that same 218 in a State that has a cutoff of 218 or lower.</p>

<p>Again, we prioritize a state-by-state NMSF/NMF cutoff – versus a National NMSF/NMF cutoff – to promote diverse student representation from historically-disadvantaged States in rural regions, industrial regions, and poor regions. Not I nor anyone here on College Confidential has a problem with that because we see the Merit of such an approach, despite the fact that there already exist many Scholarship and other preferences for students from rural regions, industrial regions, and poor regions.</p>

<p>Why does the National Merit organization not support a similar, specialized cutoff for low-income URM students? Do we not see any “merit” in that approach as well?</p>

2608

<p>maybe you can discuss your philosophical differences on a separate thread, please? </p>

2609

<p>@Illinoisan…NMSC does support a specialized, low cutoff program for URMs…it the National Achievement Scholarship program. I understand that it is for AA students, and your particular concern as a Californian is for Hispanic students, but they DO exactly what you’re asking for. I would guess the reason NMSC doesn’t administer a similar program for Hispanic students is because College Board already has NHRP. I understand you’d like to see the depth and breadth of the program expand, but it DOES exist. Both NA and NHRP try to balance out inequities in K-12 educational opportunities by having lower qualifying criteria for the scholarships, but even that doesn’t fully meet the need as it addresses only race…not socio-ecomonic inequities. </p>

<p>No system is perfect, and I’m not sure anyone could ever come up with a plan that would make everyone happy…but NMSC and College Board are making a great effort with their targeted scholarship plans. I happen to think that should be applauded more than criticized.</p>

<p>ETA: @ThatsEnough…you are correct. My apologies. Despite its flaws, I think the NM program is fantastic and I come to it’s defense too vigorously at times. This thread is about qualifying scores and for sharing results good and bad.</p>

2610

<p>I have been just glancing at this thread hoping other parents on the bubble get better news than we did, and I really don’t want to get into the serious back and forth going on in the posts above. For my two cents, the fact that my son had to go back and refresh for the math section because it was math that he did 2 and 3 years ago just says to me that the material on the test is designed with every school system in mind and tests on material that correlates with where 10th or 11th graders on a regular track should be, so that kids who do not have the opportunity for whatever reason to take advanced or accelerated courses will still be in the same place as their peers nationwide for this test. Does that mean kids who are advanced will do better? Nope. There have been stories lately of kids from single parent homes getting perfect SAT scores (one boy from DC from a tough neighborhood got a 2400 despite the odds and the broken DC school system and got accepted into every Ivy League college), and plenty of examples of privileged kids with all the resources available to them doing horribly on the tests. If we start carving out different cutoffs for different groups, who decides which group gets stuck with the actual cutoff levels we have now? Out of the 50,000 kids who make the Commended cutoff, 14,000 will make SF. That’s not the same as saying that they are the top 14,000 kids who took the test, just that that group met their individual state cutoffs. My son got a 223 in DC and missed, someone else’s child will get a 208 and in their state they qualify. But there are probably lots of kids in the lower cutoff states that got the same or higher score as my son, and people could assume that they didn’t perform at that high level just because their state cutoff is lower. As parents, all we can do is try to put things in perspective for our kids, and, in my case, bake him a few cookies - and eat way too many when he leaves for school so I feel better!! Congrats to everyone - SF or Commended! We all have smart, wonderful kids!</p>

2611

<p>News starts coming out from MA area: <a href=“Northborough Students Semifinalists in National Merit Scholarship Program | Northborough, MA Patch”>Northborough Students Semifinalists in National Merit Scholarship Program | Northborough, MA Patch;

2612

<p>To any URM, low income, or first generation college student who has high enough PSAT scores tobe interested in this thread, I urge you to check out the QuestBridge organization!!! Add .org to that to get there! Fantastic program. My daughter was a Finalist (low income category) without even being NM Commended.</p>

2613

<p>@illinoisan,

Bright, low-income URM students are getting recognition and considerable admissions preferences w lower test scores. Bright, low-income ORM students, on the other hand, get completely shafted.</p>

<p>

It does. National Achievement is administered by National Merit Corp:
<a href=“http://www.nationalmerit.org/nasp.php”>http://www.nationalmerit.org/nasp.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

2614

<p>I love that people have opinions and aren’t afraid to share them. Now, as we’ve likely not made NMSF…about that bubble party?!</p>

2615

<p>illinoisan may be right about some things and not others.</p>

<p>Hispanics and URMS have access to some opportunities that non-URMs do not. For example, our state flagship UW-Madison(Which probably has peeling paint but is well-regarded nonetheless) has a program for URMs that kids enroll in in middle or high school and that involves summer and school year mentoring. Kids who complete the program get 4 yr full tuition scholarship to UW. They have basically no large scholarships for non-URMs, except a one yr. non-renewable resident NMF $7500, money for which comes from private foundation. There are lots of specialized URM scholarships. There are diversity fly-ins. I don’t begrudge anyone these opportunities, just pointing out that they are available to Hispanics, but not to whites and not often to Asians.</p>

<p>When you look at the list of sponsoring colleges for NMF, you do realize that the vast majority of these schools are offering no more than $2,000/yr, right? Because for schools that cost $60,000, that is a mere token towards paying for school. Hispanics who are low income will do far better by focussing on FA and large URM scholarships than to worry about $2,000/yr scholarship that might just serve to reduce their financial aid award, maybe the work-study part.</p>

<p>When you get into the schools that give big $$ for NMFs, it goes both ways. Some schools say on their website that the money is offered equally to NAF, NMF and NHS. Eg, Northeastern, UArizona, ASU, UNebraska-Lincoln, UTulsa, and those mentioned yesterday by another poster. Others state that while NMF scholarships are extended to NAF, which is also under the NMSC umbrella, NHS,a college board program, are specifically excluded. Sometimes given a small token award, eg, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss. Other times not mentioned at all. </p>

<p>I got interested and sent a slew of e-mails to schools that make no mention of it. UAlabama immediately replied that they give no automatic merit to NHS. But UAB and UAH both clearly state on their websites that NHS do get their NMF scholarship. UAB is a full ride. Perhaps this is what illinoisan meant by 2nd and 3rd tier colleges? I’ll list later what I hear from the other schools. OK, just heard from UKy. They say NHS do get the Patterson full ride, though it is not mentioned on website.</p>

<p>You also must realize that support for NMSC/NMF is dwindling. Scholarships at many schools have been regularly reduced from full rides to full tuition to fraction of full tuition. Many schools drop out of the sponsorship completely. Denison just dropped a full tuition scholarship for NMF. UF finally dropped completely a couple years ago after repeated reductions. And so on.</p>

<p>The structure of the NMSC program is not designed to help or hurt URMs or whites. Except for the addition of the NAF program that helps blacks. Any such effect is an unintentional byproduct. It is structured so that NMFs are distributed evenly throughout US by state graduating senior population. High/low cutoffs result from a variety of factors. A large population of high achieving students overfilling the 3rd standard deviation(eg ,CA- Asians) pushes scores up. Sections of the country where few people take the SAT, and by extension PSAT, have depressed cut scores. States that administer the test to all 10th and 11th grade students have higher test scores due to high participation and repeat exposure. Quality of education makes a difference-MA. But even in states with low cut scores, like my own, URMs do not necessarily benefit. Few of them take the test to begin with as it is a low participation state, and the ones who do are so disadvantaged that only a very few even can make NAF</p>

2616

<p>But the National Hispanic Recognition Program (for Latino students) is not administered by the National Merit organization. I suppose our country’s fastest-growing, under-represented minority group does not deserve it, right?</p>

2617

<p><a href=“http://www.abqjournal.com/457114/news/nmsu-reinstates-merit-scholarship.html”>http://www.abqjournal.com/457114/news/nmsu-reinstates-merit-scholarship.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

2618

<p>Has anyone heard an exact number for Illinois? I have heard 215, 218 and 220. Thanks. I think the 220 should probably be erased from the state lists until we know for sure what the number is.</p>

2619

<p>DD was NMF last year, and while a few universities offered scholarships that could make a difference to us, I could count them on one hand. It was great to have a guaranteed option early on (thanks, UK!), but most of the schools offered just token awards. Being in the northeast was part of this. There are very, very few awards there! Not to say that being named a NMF wasn’t a great experience for her, but it didn’t result in an avalanche of $$$. </p>

2620

<p>@illinoisan: The flip side is that Latinos get preferential treatment in college applications, no? Plus I’m sure a myriad of scholarship opportunities based on ethnicity. Being a plain, “white” kid with no options for filling any type of preferences makes the college process pretty random these days. I think everyone needs to step back and just look at individual kids’ accomplishments and goals, without grouping into ethnicities, economics, whatever. The divisiveness is really not healthy. Bottom line: work hard, dream, have great mentors, reach for your dreams. No excuses, no blame; feel lucky if you have an advantage and give back to others.</p>