Class of 2020 (sharing, venting, etc)

College Majors Musical Theater Majors
2501

@complacent – YES, kids from NU work!! Your observation about NU is correct - the program graduates industry leaders in casting, directing, producing, writing, design, music direction, composition AND performing (including MT, straight theatre, TYA, film, comedy, etc.), as well as some kids who go on to be doctors and lawyers. D graduated this past June, and already has performing classmates on Broadway, playing leads in major regional theatres, on tours, on cruises… you name it.

D has many friends who chose NU over any BFA or conservatory in the country (50% of the incoming class chooses NU binding ED). CMU is a fabulous program, but for D it fell far lower on her list than NU as she had decided she wanted a full college experience, including the option of an academic double major, so her top three schools (in order) were Northwestern, Yale then Brown. In the end, her choice worked out especially well for her as she was able to take two quarters off for contracts and still graduate on time with her additional focus on History, which she could not have done elsewhere.

As others here have said, there is no “right” answer to your choice aside from the program that best meets your desires for the coming 4 years.

I would remind everyone here that college flies by in the blink of an eye, and most people only get to do it once in their lives. D felt she wanted the full college experience (beautiful campus, exposure to lots of different brilliant people with a variety of interests, a cappella groups, sororities, etc,.) and knew that as a working MT she would study voice, acting and dance the rest of her working life. So far she is extremely glad to have chosen as she did, as she is watching many friends who opted for conservatories and BFAs already beginning to second-guess their choice of career - even after less than a year out of school - and feeling they have too few options.

Best of luck to everyone still making decisions, to those already anticipating starting college next year and to those planning for further in the future!

2502

Thank you @bfahopeful!

2503

@complacent and @MTDadandProud Now I am curious as to what male “type” is not normally seen in the MT world? I am new to this thread with a Junior S who is interested in this entirely new world to us. Is there a “normal” type? And if so, what is it? :-?

2504

@MomCares Wow. Thank you for this. What did you daughter do with Dance training there? (I know it is a weaker point of the MT program). Did she utilize dance department electives, or take off-campus dance? Did she feel the caliber of the acting/MT training was rigorous enough?

Do you think she suffered in terms of MT NYC industry connections post-grad because she didn’t go a school with a dynamite showcase? Lastly, was she still able to form that BFA style MT family at NU? Thank you so so much. You are terrific.

@MidwestMTMom Without giving too much away, I am certainly not a pop tenor and I am very, very tall. Other than that I am pretty normal in terms of ‘type’

2505

Baritone/basses are often seen less. Normally the more sporty/manly voices and types don’t audition for MT BFAs. However there are less needed in theatre too. A lot of baritone roles can be sung by tenors because they never go that low, (Aaron Tviet played John Wilkies Booth at the west end, the character is a bass and Aaron definitely isn’t). However, at the end of the day, it does pay to be a tall handsome lower voice. Steven Pasqaule from Bridges type.

2506

@complacent - I think most everyone at NU would agree with your assessment that dance is the weaker link (hope other NU families will chime in!), as I think it may also be at CMU (no dance audition IIRC). NU has a dance program, and (at least when D was there) there were leveled auditions for dance classes and kids were able to take many extra dance courses, but the school is affiliated with Jump Rythm Jazz, which some people adore and others less so.

D is a singer who moves (female MT dancers usually start serious dance by age 5) and has enjoyed very solid and steady casting, but dance will never be her key strength. She has friends at Northwestern, though, who have been principal dancers at major national companies, and several of them study and perform with other Chicago area companies and studios while others teach at nearby studios to keep up their chops. I know NU grads who have had great post-grad success as MT dancers, but wouldn’t guess that any of them gained those levels of skills over 4 years of college. I’d say NU grads are more likely to play leads than to become MT ensemble dancers as a general rule, though there are of course exceptions.

I can’t really speak to the issue of the NY showcase, as D had signed with a top Chicago agency during her Junior year and opted to skip her NYC showcase as she was in the midst of a great contract that conflicted. She has been approached by some NY agencies even while working in Chicago, but her current agency has gotten her Broadway appointments and callbacks for the roles for which she’s been suited (they have an NY and LA presence) so for now she is very happy where she is. Her friends who wanted NY representation all got it during their showcase, for whatever that’s worth.

Interestingly, the small size of a typical BFA cohort was not an asset in D’s eyes. Her time at MPusle helped her realize she really wanted a larger and more diverse group of classmates to spend 4 years with, but I will say she VERY quickly found “her” group of special peers at NU (many from her a cappella group and MT cohort) and has kept in very close touch with them in addition to her broader network of school friends.

I can’t speak to the progress of her CMU friends as I haven’t asked her what they’re doing lately. They are VERY different types than she is so I’m not sure how direct the comparison would be in any case.

Congratulations on having fantastic options!! It sounds like you are destined to shine wherever you choose to land!

2507

@artskids Hahaaaaaa!!! Well she will be prepared for whichever she chooses! Must be so hard to continue waiting,praying your D gets the exact Yes she is waiting for!! :slight_smile:

2508

I am sorry but all these statements about what certain schools will get you into is crazy…look 10 years out and see who is working in the Law field, the Phd fields, the Medical world, the Investment Banker field, the Fine arts, painting, print making, the theater fields-acting, dance,MT,vocal performance… it is just not a straight path. To be brutal the kids who go to IVY or top colleges who go straight into high pay jobs, most times are coming out of families with connections, those who did not have those connections are often in those jobs within a few years. All of them find themselves working next to kids from " What School ??"schools. The difference is that half of them have a built in nest egg and the rest are just starting. But they all have the same job within 5 years out of college.

2509

@sbc - I agree It is absolutely true that a person can find succes in virtually any field without going to an elite school. BUT- my question would be, are the people that do the exception or the rule? Speaking specifically of theater- Just looking at the “where they went to college” lists - there is almost always a college that makes me say “?” On the list. But the majority of people are from recognized, quality programs. To ME - that says that while it is certainly possible to find success from any place - you are MORE likely to find it from the recognized places. Doesn’t guarantee that all, or even most kids from those programs will have success- but it seems it COULD improve the odds

BTW- I am not trying to say that you have to go to a top tier school- there is a LONG list of schools that are “recognized places”. I just disagree with what I see as sbc’s contention that it doesn’t matter at all. (I also disagree with the implication that people who went to elite colleges and/or get good jobs right out of college ALL get there via connections rather than merit, but I digress) After all, if it doesn’t make a difference what school you went to- what are we all doing on this forum?

2510

I was worrying so much about the whole "have to go to an elite /top tier MT school or bust thing & I finally had to just let that go & concentrate on helping my D get into a school that fits her criteria & our family financially. I agree w/ @sbc that 5 yrs out Lord knows what these kids will be doing…some will be performing and getting paid for it…most will not be I’m thinking , but hey…I know lots of people with awesome degrees who don’t have high paying regular jobs. Regardless of school choice. I know a lot who opted for less expensive , lesser known schools who make a good living & have no debt on top of it upon graduation & who purchased their first home @ 25. I would consider that a great start. One of these people went to no name school in a competitive field & is thriving.
Those lists of “who went where” on Broadway are always going to have unbelievable talent on them & like someone said before , it’s because CMU and UM etc only take top talent. Makes sense. I also just saw a person from Nazareth College on a list and well no one talks about that school for MT . But I am guessing that kid is super great , decided to go to Nazareth for whatever reason & now he’s on Broadway. Maybe he’s one that didn’t get into CMU or UM or NYU & he’s in the same place at the end of the day. Yay for him! The kid with talent AND drive will succeed in performance. Broadway or something else…as my D said yesterday “I don’t have to be on Broadway mom. I just want to be paid to perform in some respectable manner.”

2511

For the record, I for one have never said nor implied that one has to go to a “top” school in order to work (or more often NOT work) in theatre. I have also often disputed widely held notions that there is a “Holy Trinity” of MT schools, as none of them were highest on D’s list. I have also often said I believe it is ideal for MT kids to graduate debt free and have often advocated a less expensive school option if large debt would be required. I personally know kids from every school who are not finding steady paid theatre work… that is the norm in the industry. I attended a state school for engineering and have hired Harvard grads. D’s most successful performing peer (TV, film and MT) attended college for one semester then dropped out to move to LA.

I was sharing my observations in answer to specific questions about whether grads from D’s school work or are disadvantaged versus kids from CMU.

2512

@MomCares - I have found your answers to be really helpful – not just to the questions posed, but in reflecting on and addressing the many concerns that a decision between two quite different but excellent options brings up. Many of the things you’ve mentioned are things my D and I have mulled over in relation to comparing programs.

2513

I don’t think people on here are here to get their kids into the Holy Trinity. Many of us had no idea how this process worked and came to get advice and learn from those who have gone before. My daughter did not apply the the top tier (and I would argue that everyone’s top tier may be different). Knowledge is power and researching how to even apply to college was important to me. I think the kids that get work after college do so because of who they are, their work ethic, talent, training and luck. All of which can happen no matter where they went to school.

2514

@bisouu- I completely agree with you - talent, drive, and work ethic (not necessarily in that order!) are key- and those don’t come from the school you attend. But if the point being made in post #2507 was that it doesn’t matter where you go to school - that 5 years out everyone is the same - then it would seem that a lot of people (Including myself!!) have spent a lot of time researching, comparing, etc for no reason. I simply don’t agree with the statement that where you study make NO difference. My point was- that while it is POSSIBLE to succeed from any/all choices studying at a certain places seems to increase probability. . You could make the same analogy with coach/no coach, summer program/no summer program, lessons/no lessons etc. There is no magic formula, but there can be advantages

2515

@toowonderful I completely agree with you. I do think certain things you do in the process will give you a leg up. I wonder if using a coach might have made a different out come for us.

2516

@complacent My opinion is that Northwestern offers the total college package in a way that CMU does not.It will not provide the same level of Acting/MT training but it will provide you with a world view that will help inform your acting in other ways and allow you to continue to explore other intellectual pursuits. You will only go to college once, you will train in MT for the rest of your life if you stay in the profession. I really think NU is the way for you.

2517

@toowonderful, I agree 100%. Schools can and do make a difference…that being said, certain people can succeed from anywhere (including no school, or a 2 year program like CAP 21, AMDA, an unknown school, a BA, and all the way up to the top tier schools). If it doesn’t matter at all where your child goes to school, why are you y’all here? Pick the cheapest one you get into and call it a day. Or don’t go at all. Each person, as an artist, needs to focus on certain aspects of their craft. This will be different, person to person. Focus on the wrong thing, and it may lead to not getting work. Certain schools do indeed offer an advantage, whether it be from stellar training, from reputation, or from contacts/opening doors. Of course work ethic, innate talent, and luck come into play (as does being a nice person). But the school you attend is definitely a factor. There is no magic formula, as @toowonderful says, nor is the same formula applicable to each person.

2518

I think you are all saying the same thing but with slightly different words. IMHO opinion:

It is true that no program/school name guarantees success. This is really a no brainer and is true in many fields of study.

But then to say, because of the above, the program/school name is mute is not true. Again to think the program doesn’t matter at all is a pretty big leap in logic. Of course it matters.

So how do these two things work together? You could call it FIT.

A talented kid who does not GROW during their 4 years (and sadly this happens for a number of obvious and/or mysterious reasons) will probably not have success regardless of the school. However a talented kid who enters a top program and continues to grow and develop probably will. They are on their game and will continue to be…until something changes that.

However an overlooked and/or new and/or potentially underdeveloped talent (or maybe this school is the financial fit and/or a regional favorite for a talented kid) at a lesser known program with a solid faculty and lots of opportunities may have incredible growth in 4 years. They may finally come into themselves as an artist. They may also be showcased and given great opportunities to grow in confidence and skills.

The ability to GROW is so important. So FIT is so important. I do feel FIT is more important than program name. But for some students the big program name is the right FIT. The good news is that in the end a solid program that will provide growth is important and maybe even better for some students than name.

That is why I always say “trust the process” to get you into the right program where you can grow. I’m usually on the music board but my D auditioned for MT and VP 4 years ago. She got into both but the most excitement and money came from VP. It took some time even in undergrad for her to realize the audition decisions were right.

2519

Each person has their own reasons for being on this site and once again, my journey was not to get my child into a top tier school, but to understand this process and research how to go about getting into a BFA program. I do not believe the school matters and once you are out in the real world all becomes equal. If I believed that only a top tier school would make my child successful then when she didn’t get in why would I even bother sending her to a “lesser” school? Huge waste of money….

2520

@bisouu - I want to apologize if my posts troubled you. I have long admired your openness, honesty, and support for everyone on this forum- you are truly one of our treasures. And I have NO doubt that your lovely daughter will have every opportunity for success- she is clearly building a set of wonderful and unique experiences. I said in both recent posts, but would like to reiterate again that I do NOT think you HAVE to go to an elite school to be successful. But I was offended in sbc’s post by the supposition that I am a fool throwing away my money by sending my kid to the school we chose - b/c in the end it couldn’t possibly make a difference. I felt I needed to respond to that notion