Class of 2024 undergrad/Class of 2022 grad: The Tours, the Auditions, the Journey

College Majors Music Majors
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I’m just popping in from the 2023 thread. I’m happy to say we successfully navigated this crazy process and so can you! I responded on that post but thought it was worth posting here for you.

@khill87 I am happy to answer your questions below and always reach out if you have more!

  1. How do you feel having an early admit changed the process, for better or worse? Was it worth the scramble to get the apps in early? Did you feel your admissions or scholarship offers were enhanced by applying early?

I am SO glad we did EA at Loyola University (November) College of Saint Rose (November) and Berklee (December.) We also did an early audition-her very first audition-in late October by request at Roosevelt CCPA (she planned a shadow day and they let her do the audition in conjunction with that and videotaped it to view during the normal review process.) Columbia College was a portfolio submission but with rolling admissions so she also treated that was as an EA, submitting everything in early October. She tends to be a procrastinator so this forced her to get paperwork in early and do some early audition prep. We had 4 solid offers before Christmas which was great. Three (Columbia, Loyola and St. Rose) were safety choices but getting into Berklee (and with a decent scholarship) gave her a huge boost of confidence as she prepared for the remaining auditions (CalArts in January, Frost in February, and City College & New School in March.) In general our spread out calendar of auditions, which was by design, worked very well for her. Obviously, everyone is different by when I was reading about 2 or 3 auditions in the same week for some here, some on different coasts and in the midst of tricky weather, I nearly had an anxiety attack thinking about it! So for our family, the EA’s and spread-out audition schedule worked out really well and I would personally recommend it.

  1. If your kid got in to their top choice early, was it worth the effort to go to all of the other auditions and then ultimately choose the early one? What led you to do so? Did you ever think about skipping the rest of the auditions if you already had a good school in the bag?

My daughter never really had a “top choice” and felt all 9 schools were contenders due to our research on each and she was open to each having the potential to be “the one” so she never even thought about dropping any from the list.

  1. If your kid got in early but decided ultimately to go elsewhere, was it because they changed their mind and an early “top choice” fell out of favor? Or did a better offer come in somewhere else? Was the early school more of a “safety” all along, rather than a top choice?

She ultimately chose one of the EA schools (Loyola) so I guess this doesn’t apply but the generous scholarship offered early (which increased later in the process) and her positive audition experience (NOT the flight delay nightmare but her connecting with the faculty and their sincere interest in her) definitely kept it on the table.

My general advice for ANYONE starting the process is:

  1. Get the common ap done in the summer before school starts (we had September 1st as goal.) I actually hired her favorite English teacher from 8th grade to work with her to complete the common ap and complete her essay. She is more than capable of doing this on her own and is a great writer so only needed someone to check her essay over. But my purpose was to set up structured time for her to work with a neutral person (whom she loves) by her side. They met at a bookstore and it took less than a week, a few hours per day. Keep in mind that each school has additional questions, sometimes requiring much writing, so when you think you are done with the common ap, you are not! So ALL of that was completed with this tutor. Turning in the common ap early also enabled us to schedule the EA auditions sooner. She had a few school-specific applications which were due later so I put that on my daughter to complete but gave her a deadline and knew her pass code (see #4) to check it.
  2. Schedule a few EA auditions if you can but with at least one safety school so he/she is not discouraged if they do not get into a tougher school or don't get a big scholarship. To me, the EA should be designed to boost confidence and reduce audition load/stress later.
  3. If your child is not properly prepared (emotionally or musically) and needs to focus on intense practice/extra lessons to master the auditions, do not feel you have to schedule early auditions. For some kids, that is critical skill-building and confidence-building time and that should be the priority. Due to my daughter's experience with vocal auditions and her background in theatre which forced her to cram a little for big auditions or performances, I felt she was in the right place to handle the EA's.
  4. Your kids will be asked to create sign-in/passcodes for each school, the common ap, Accept'ed (for some prescreens) and FAFSA/CSS profile. It's overwhelming, so try to come up with a common sign-in name (we used my daughter's email) and SAME password that you can use for all things (if it contains a letter, number and symbol you should be good for any.) Keep the passcodes in the notes section of your phone or somewhere that will be handy. Know your child's sign-in and pass codes! If they change it, make them share with you. I know this sounds invasive but your kids will thank you when you check an application and realize they are missing something! If colleges ask for your email and the child's that is great because you will get important info along with your child. But most just ask for one email. It's fine to ask your child to use yours but if your child puts his/her email down, make it clear that they need to forward ANY emails for the schools they applied to, even if it does not seem important. My daughter was overwhelmed with emails from so many schools she did not apply to but she was really good about forwarding the emails from the schools on her list. Please don't judge me if you think this sound too "helicopter parent-ish" but it was very helpful to be informed along the way since this is a very complex process and you don't want to miss something important. I recently found that Columbia had increased my daughter's talent scholarship by $3000 in the final weeks but she somehow missed it. Luckily, she had already decided on Loyola by then but if Columbia was still in the mix, that would have been quite relevant.

I hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions. Now that this part of the journey is over, I need something to occupy my time anyway! Lol.

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While these invaluable pieces of hard-earned, seasoned advice could certainly be seen as a set of “best practices,” I want to reiterate something I’ve posted about before: no two musicians/talents are identical, no two students are the same, no set of family and financial circumstances looks entirely alike, and there can be countless ways to achieve the same end (the ideal match between student and college and financial reality).

I often read this forum and am left feeling as if the whole process for getting into competitive music programs is inaccessible to families with lesser means.

Posters inevitably recommend we look to a student’s private teacher for guidance on talent level, target programs and repertoire—which assumes the student even has a private teacher (and a high-level one who is knowledgeable, up-to-date, well-versed and experienced in placing kids in top conservatories/schools of music).

Students are counseled to apply to quite a few programs to up the odds—which requires costly application and arts supplement fees and time.

They’re advised to produce semi-professional prescreen videos with skilled accompaniment—which can be cost-prohibitive (not to mention near impossible for less-connected students).

We’re told we really should visit schools in person to feel “the vibe” on campus while narrowing down targets and/or choosing among acceptances—which requires time away from school/studies/sports/extracurriculars and off of work as well as travel expenses.

We’re advised to arrange lessons—or, better yet, an ongoing series of lessons—with prospective studio professors to determine with whom they might (or might not) mesh, which can also require time and travel and sometimes incur a fee per lesson. Even if you can schedule these during in-person audition trips, you’ll likely to have to stay at least one additional hotel night because professors tend to be fully booked on audition days.

You’re encouraged to participate in summer programs, which can be quite costly.

You’re advised to audition on campus in person (vs regionals and certainly vs video). And it’s recommended that you arrive a day early to work around inevitable travel hiccups and be well rested for auditions.

And the list goes on.

All that said, for various reasons my instrumentalist hadn’t had private lessons since he was a beginner in middle school; he targeted 4 ideal programs (well, really 3, but I insisted on the 4th needlessly); he recorded his own prescreen videos on his iPhone; he did one video audition, 2 regional auditions, and a single in-person audition; and he hadn’t worked with any studio professors in advance. His only supposed “leg up” was attending summer programs (on scholarship) with largely visiting faculty from non-target programs.

He got into all 4 programs (and each came in as reasonably affordable), and he is now finishing up his second year at his dream school.

So while I can see how some or all of these recommendations might be “ideal” for families with means…I just want people to know there can be many approaches to the same fantastic end.

This process isn’t for the faint of heart…but it is for anyone, no matter the means, with talent, ambition, drive and passion!

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@mom2clarinetobsessedkid it’s true you can’t really worry about sticker price, but as others have said, you do need to understand your own financial picture and budget, and how it interacts with each school’s financial aid and scholarship policies. It’s harder to understand that picture with music kids because music scholarships seem to be less predictable and transparent than the academic ones. And sometimes you can be sure about affordability but not about admission when auditions are in play. It’s good for parents and kids to go into the process with eyes wide open, financially, and good communication about budget.

All the advice about research and sample lessons and summer programs and contact with teachers is great, but don’t panic if you and/or your kid doesn’t get to everything or do it all. My son had a sample lesson with one teacher. One. It’s not the school he ultimately chose. He’s never been to a music summer program (we offered, he had other summer priorities). He didn’t even have the top teacher for his instruments in our area. Looking back, with the kid I have, and the resources we had available, we did everything we could and I don’t have regrets that we couldn’t do more. I did have to let go of some idealism through the process and focus on what my kid really needed vs what I thought was a good idea or what other people were doing. He ended up with four acceptances, on both his instruments, out of four applications. All were affordable, and two (maybe three) were really great options for him with great teachers that he met for the first time in the audition process, He had a difficult choice between the top two.

Good luck to everyone. Honestly it’s a hard process, but the most beautiful thing was seeing my son at his audition and visit days and seeing how happy he was just to be there, immersed in a college music environment, having other people say they saw it too, to hear him grow as a musician through this last year of high school, and to begin to see those glimpses of something special we saw when he was a small child turn into an adult plan for the future.

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@YertleTurtle Thanks for that important clarification. Indeed, my son did not do any summer programs. He did not do “trial lessons” until November of senior year. He did not do a few early auditions just to “build confidence.” His first audition was his highest reach, most competitive school. His WORST audition ended up being at the school he committed to. Do not believe the fearmongers who say it is better to audition in person. That might be true in most cases, but I can cite specific examples of kids who got into the most difficult, most selective programs from sending a recorded audition. There is definitely no one-size- fits -all method to this madness. If finances are the uttermost criterion, there are a number of programs that give significant aid: Obviously the two big ones, Curtis and Colburn. But consider also Lynn University in Florida. They give 100% full scholarship to all music majors, and their teachers are some heavy hitters from NYC and elsewhere. The McDuffie School at Mercer University gives full scholarships to all string players. Bard Conservatory gives full scholarships to certain instruments. Along with Eastman, Frost, and USC, Hartt is known to be extremely generous. CIM is moving towards a tuition-free model (though that should take a few years…?) The Canadian schools are significantly cheaper: McGIll, Ottawa, and UBC all have fantastic music programs. Finally, if you can swing it, look to Europe or even Asia. There are several top programs that offer very little to no tuition.

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@YertleTurtle - very sage advice. There were a couple of schools we drew the line and said we weren’t going to visit before the application/audition. In those instances, S contacted the head of the department and scheduled call with them to learn about the program and their philosophy. And, even doing an in person audition, doesn’t guarantee you will get a scholarship.

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Great advice. Of course, everyone’s mileage will vary. Thanks to all who share their experience, hopefully future applicants will find what they need here.

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In the vein of @YertleTurtle, I will add the following. My comments are NOT meant to diminish or dismiss any comments above. Those details above will be very helpful…“best practices” surely. So there is NO issue in posting successful journeys.

For UG, we were much more ignorant. I certainly spent a good amt of time “figuring” out the financial side. I would give myself an A- on finances (or if grading on a curve with CC only parents maybe a C+). For all other areas, maybe I would get a D. With travel planning I guess I could move it up to a D+ (hey I got her to the locations on time!) but she auditioned and left sometimes the same day…so yea…definitely below average. And if you consider failing to ever meet or sing for a targeted teacher THEN I get a big fat F! Also my D never did a summer program…I would have found that silly and expensive. So F-? (Note my D was in VP…instrumentalists may differ).

But here’s the good news: It wasn’t about ME or my lack of knowledge or money. I could fail with abandon bc I never had to walk into an audition room.

It WAS about my D … who was diligently working away in her home town with local teachers for years. So despite my many errors along the way, she did her job in the audition room and the acceptances and money followed.

This process IS for anyone…even without summer programs, multiple trips to the same school, auditions nationwide…but you do need talent…and a good, experienced teacher (high school and/or private) to help with the school list.

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@YertleTurtle is spot on. Two of my son’s first acceptances were at state schools - both professors were seated in major symphony orchestras. Our cost would have been $10K per year. These were good schools, accomplished teachers and very affordable.

We got a little lucky at the end of the day.

The prestige name game isn’t for everyone and it shouldn’t be. There are more than a few ways to navigate this process successfully without breaking the bank. There are a lot of affordable great teachers and schools out there off the sacred holy grail music path and parents/students should be encouraged to explore those options.

For example, University of Arizona has a brilliant bassoon professor. So does Arizona State and University of Houston.

This place is a bit of a an echo chamber for those seeking top name schools. It’s not reflective of the real world most of us can afford.

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You know, @jadedhaven , there is something in your last paragraph of post #147 that catches my attention. I have wondered something like that myself.

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Introducing myself - my son is about to start the journey (rising HS senior), looking at classical vocal performance (baritone). I need to state at the outset that this is something we NEVER anticipated at all.

Things are a little different for us, as his dad and I are both professional singers and university voice faculty members. One might think that gives us some kind of advantage, which I suppose it does, to some degree (understanding what is desireable in a screening video, what is appropriate rep, etc). But we still feel a bit overwhelmed looking at all of this through the eyes of parents who (like everyone else here) want their kid to find a great fit in terms of program, voice teacher, and quality education /training (at an affordable price). We’re really trying hard to be like everyone else here and let him find his way.

I’m going to try to soak up information from all of you good folks who have been able to do school visits, as we feel a bit behind on that.

Some questions from me: any high schoolers going to summer programs for voice? (Mine will do Schmidt this year.) And is anyone else going to the Classical Singer Convention/competition?

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@CindyCV Welcome!! My D is also a rising senior in VP. She did Eastman last year and will do Oberlin and Tanglewood this summer. (Schmidt looks like a great program – my D did the regional Schmidt vocal competition this year and really benefited from it). I don’t know about the Classical Singer Convention/competition, but would love to find out about it. We are just learning our way through this process and definitely looking for ways to earn scholarship money!

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Classical singer national convention is phenomenal. The master classes are a great way to meet faculty at many good schools. There will also be a school fair with admissions reps from the schools to talk with. They have scouts listening to the finals and give scholarships to many regional and national programs and camps. Highly recommend, even if you aren’t competing just to see all the participating schools in one place and ask questions. That said, the competition is great way of getting a taste of what lies ahead in auditions as student receives written feedback from judges after each round (who are from Thornton, Eastman, Mannes, Northwestern, Vitterbo, Depauw, etc…). Grand prize to HS students is usually $$ but they often award a full tuition scholarship to Eastman as well. Especially if you can get there by driving, it’s worth thinking about!

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@goforth - I think most of CC music kids and the parents on this site dream big and imagine the future might hold a top symphony orchestra, opera house, broadway, etcetera spot if they just get into one of the best schools. Followed by one of the best grad programs.

I suspect many music major parents who stumble across this site looking for guidance on simply navigating the process through their state school systems, plus a few other affordable programs, simply give up and quietly leave because there is no way they have the funds to travel to ten top name schools, much less have the ability to afford that many applications and, more to the point, nobody here is talking about the schools they’re children are interested in attending and that they can afford.

It’s a pretty closed loop.

There is no critique or advice given on other than the top schools. You are the lonely voice advocating for a great program in an awesome little college town in North Texas. Bravo sir!

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I know Texas/UNT isn’t for everyone’s tastes, while Michigan, Frost, and Berklee were getting the most mentions to my memory in this recent season. Very Jazz heavy this year, at least in the journey thread compared to years past.

There are many cool things at UNT. Sometimes I just don’t mention them for fear of being repititious or for fear of over-talking up a program that folks just are not interested in for their own reasons.

I will say at this point in the 2024 thread that every school in S’ final-5 had a very specific business case for it. I will elaborate, with no particular order:

  1. UNT - home area of Snarky Puppy, very affordable, huge jazz student body.
  2. Michigan - home area of Wulpeck, the previous year to our year, a jazz bassist was offered a full ride, but passed on it, so we felt there was potential residual needs/opportunity of that level.
  3. William Paterson - not too too far from NYC, likely becoming fairly affordable
  4. Frost - because it was the year for Stamps Jazz, there was a full-ride spot open. We did not know that the spot had actually already been given away to a person who gap-yeared to receive it, but we went with the info we had
  5. SUNY Purchase - not too far from NYC, with potential to become affordable.

We tried to have specific recon and info about why each choice who be satisfactory and achievable.

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Hello! I was sent over here from the intro thread… I have a clarinet who is a junior in high school. Music has been a huge part of her life and she wants to continue with it, she is just unsure of what exactly she wants to do — music Ed, performance, musicology. We live in a rural part of Texas, and our school has a long history of producing wonderful musicians and she is definitely among the best they’ve had. However, we don’t have easy access to private lessons, advanced ensembles, etc. so she is probably not ready nor is she sure she wants to apply to elite music schools. She has narrowed down her search to a SLAC with a strong music program and plans to audition in November as an ED candidate. That way she’ll end up with a terrific undergrad degree even if she ends up participating just for fun and goes a completely different direction for her major. But she is super pumped to see how far she can take this with regular lessons and challenging repertoire and believes that may inspire her to go the performance route. Not ready to share which school, yet. Maybe after she gets in. ?

I do have another musician, a high school freshman percussionist. I am interested in any continued discussion of UNT… in-state for us and he has a dear friend studying music there next year. So we’ve heard wonderful things about it and are eager to hear more!

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@AmyIzzy I would love to hear more about Loyno. I brought my two high school musicians there in November and my D20 was totally turned off by the religious imagery and nuns she saw walking through campus. I was so bummed because I thought this would be a terrific school for her. We also toured Tulane beforehand and they couldn’t get past the difference in campus size and quality of facilities. I tried to get them to realize that they are going to get a better music experience at Loyno but it was difficult to them to see past those physical aspects. Ugh

I think D20 will still apply if her ED falls through and I believe it will be a major contender for my percussionist S22.

Are you concerned at all about the financial probation? Any new news on that?

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@murray93 my DD violinist is pursuing a BA, majoring in music performance, at a school with a strong music department, and is very happy with her choice. She’s finishing her first year of undergraduate and right now is thinking of applying for MM once it’s time to fo for next steps.

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Welcome @murray93 . Glad you can join our discussions here. I have 2 HS musicians as well, but only one will pursue in college. You’ll be a music school expert by the time it’s your percussionist’s turn! And now there are at least 2 clarinet players on this thread.

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Thank you for the welcome! @SuzeViolin she will likely start on the BA track as well. The professor at her target school actually recommended this route for her because it would be easy (at this particular school) to move up to a BM or down to a minor.

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@GoForth UNT is one of my top schools (along with USC–I haven’t visited either, so they’re pretty much even as I only have reputation and other people’s opinions to work off.) However, I’m not interested in jazz. My area of interest specifically is choral music, especially early/sacred music, and the reason UNT is on my list is because last year, at the Sacred Music Symposium, I met a UNT grad who highly recommended the program and is currently successful in the field I’m interested in entering. I’m very impressed with the Collegium ensemble and I understand UNT’s Music Ed (which would probably be my major) program is nationally ranked. In addition, I’ve seen faculty at Westminster Choir College and other major chorally strong universities that came out of UNT.

Beyond what I’ve mentioned, do you have any insight as to the specific field of choral/early/sacred music at UNT?