Cloud Atlas – October CC Book Club Selection

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>Wow- from the link above about the making of the movie - the screenwriters said
“These characters are connected by an intricate network of leitmotifs—a comet–shaped birthmark crops up frequently, for instance—and by their ability to somehow escape the fate that has been prepared for them”</p>

<p>Did the characters escape their intended fate- change their destinies?</p>

<p>Supporting what you just wrote BUBC they view the book as quite hopeful!</p>

<p>“They were drawn to the scale of its ideas, to its lack of cynicism, and to the dramatic possibilities inherent in the book’s recurring moments of hope”</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>

@SouthJerseyChessMom

Did the characters escape their intended fate- change their destinies?

I assume this means something along the lines of - Adam Ewing escapes the death by poisoning which Dr. Goose is planning, Luisa Rey escapes after her car is run off the bridge, Timothy Cavendish escapes the nursing home his brother commits him to, Zachry escapes from the Kona chasing them across Hawaii who would enslave them, Sonmi escapes a destiny of being a clone slave in a restaurant. Frobisher? not so sure.</p>

<p>On the subject of bridges and The Bridge of San Luis Rey, at least 3 of the stories feature a person or persons falling from bridges - Luisa, the fabricant doll, and the Kona in Sloosha’s Crossing.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>I’m pretty sure I saw something about the movie that hinted at the Sloosha’s Crossing part being much more upbeat. I think it implied that Meronym led a large group to safety. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t put it past them to keep Frobisher alive as well.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>I don’t think of the characters as being reincarnated. To me, the comet birthmark is a reminder that we are all connected, sons and daughters of Adam, if you will. The choice of a comet seems appropriate: I read online that the comet’s name is based on its resemblance to humans. It’s from a Greek word that means “hair of the head” because it looks like a person with long hair streaming behind. </p>

<p>In addition to being a human form (of sorts), the comet as a symbol makes sense in the context of the book because many comets reappear at certain intervals, and because they are luminous streaks through the sky, calling attention to themselves as they come and go. </p>

<p>The question is, if you rule out straight reincarnation (and I do), then why are only certain characters marked with the comet? Are these individuals more “luminous” than others during their brief time on Earth? Do the choices they make have a more profound effect on subsequent generations?</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>Cross posted with Mary----I am confused and had the same questions about these characters- why them?</p>

<p>Sylvan, thank you for summarizing those elements.
To take that one step further, in order to escape their intended fates,** does each character have someone who has helped them? **
Shown them kindness?
Changed their fate? </p>

<p>Does this make sense ? I know there are layers upon layers, on this plot, but is this the skeleton of this book?</p>

<p>Adam – witnesses Maori Predator- Maoriri Prey</p>

<pre><code> Colonizers – Predator —indigenous people prey
</code></pre>

<p>Frobisher- predator – VD- Prey </p>

<p>Timothy – Nursing Home (Nurse Rachett character) Predator —Timothy Prey </p>

<p>Luisa Rey – Corporate Predator – citizens prey </p>

<p>Sonmi – Institutional Government – Predator – Individual Prey </p>

<p>(from this article Mitchell says that 'structurists" will appreciate that Meronym’s climb to Mauna Lea is the midpoint and peak of this book .</p>

<p>“Structure-fanciers will note that this scene is the ** structural peak, or
mid-point,** of the entire novel.”
[url=&lt;a href=“Guardian book club: Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell | David Mitchell | The Guardian”&gt;Guardian book club: Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell | David Mitchell | The Guardian]m.guardian.co.uk[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Meronym – Predator ---- Valleymen Prey </p>

<pre><code> Kona Predator – Valleymen Prey
</code></pre>

<p>(After the Slooshin story - someone acting with kindness helps resolve the storylines)</p>

<pre><code> Zachary Predator – Meronym Prey ** Saved by Sonmi **
</code></pre>

<p>Sonmi – (who saves her?)</p>

<p>Frobisher – ??? (not sure his fate is positively changed)</p>

<p>Luisa Rey – **saved by father’s friend **</p>

<p>Timothy Cavendish –saved by Mrs Latham ?</p>

<p>Adam – Dr Goose (Predator) ----Adam (Prey) </p>

<pre><code> ** Saved by Autua **– who had traveled the world, saw good and bad and recognized the good / empathy in Adam’s eyes.
</code></pre>

<p>copied this from NJTheaterMom’s link to the LitBlog - the Read-along-blog - great link.</p>

<p>I can’t believe it took me this long realize how specifically Mitchell links his comment about “individuals prey upon individuals, groups upon groups, and nations upon nations” to the actual structure of the book’s six narratives. The entire novel is built on the “ascension and descension” themes that you’ve written about, not just in the individual narratives themselves but in the actual order in which they’re shown</p>

<p>We start out at the “Individual” with Adam Ewing and Robert Frobisher, climb to the “Group” with Luisa and Cavendish, and finally reach the apex of “Nation” with Sonmi and Zach’ry. Then we descend back down, all the way to “Individual” again, where it ends with Mitchell’s view about choice and individual.</p>

[psychmom]

<p>The book overwhelmed me at the end; the combination of Adam Ewing’s inspirational words combined with the recognition of what happened to the world was quite a paradox. Predatory forces win out and are destined to repeat–yeah, I’d say that’s depressing. </p>

<p>From an interview with David Mitchell regarding predatory themes in his novels:</p>

<p>Q: Do you try to balance this with optimism?</p>

<p>DM: I must: it’s my job. Who wants to spend a tenner on 400 pages of unmitigated misery? Depressive nihilism leads nowhere, and is not the whole picture: that’s why it never catches on, except as a fashion accessory. Human beings also do humour and redemption (I like to imagine us big-brained primates actually evolving humour as a sort of natural Prozac against the depressing viciousness of the world, whilst our more ‘realist’ evolutionary competitors chucked themselves off the Rift Valley cliff-tops.) The Wire, for instance, is an unflinching map of downward spirals, but it’s so brilliant and human and lifelike (not to mention successful) because of its flashes of compassion and redemption and even farce. Don’t hire Doctor Pangloss as a life-coach, but don’t hire Eeyore either.</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>Mary asks **Are these individuals more “luminous” than others during their brief time on Earth? **</p>

<p>Adam devotes his life to abolish slavery.
Frobisher- creates great art/ music
Timothy -
Sonmi- becomes a “goddess” saves Meronym in future generation
Meronym establishes a society and perpetuates civilazation
Luisa Rey - whistle blower</p>

<p>

Psych Mom - The book overwhelmed me at the end; the combination of Adam Ewing’s inspirational words combined with the recognition of what happened to the world was quite a paradox. Predatory forces win out and are destined to repeat–yeah, I’d say that’s depressing.

</p>

<p>EXACTLY - I found this story very BLEAK!!! I enjoyed the humor and creativity, but very depressing. Completely agree- human nature ugly.</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>

@Mary13

The question is, if you rule out straight reincarnation (and I do), then why are only certain characters marked with the comet?

I’m wondering if our own religious (or lack thereof) backgrounds affect how we are able to interpret the question of reincarnation in the story? Personally, I don’t have a problem with the idea that the characters could be reincarnations of the same spirit (or manifestations). Adam Ewing becomes an abolitionist. Luisa Rey is an activist of sorts. Sonmi takes up the cause of “clone slavery”, Meronym becomes involved in the post-apocalyptic civilization. Frobisher is a bit of a rake, creative, but embodying different aspects of the personality. Cavendish is rather like an older Frobisher, a devilish rake. </p>

<p>An interesting take is that Sonmi, as an “ascendent” and also one of the later reincarnations becomes a god - the ultimate ascendency? After her, it’s almost as if Meronym is starting over at the same place that Adam Ewing started in the beginning.</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>

@SouthJerseyChessMom

To take that one step further, in order to escape their intended fates, does each character have someone who has helped them?
Shown them kindness?
Changed their fate?</p>

<p>Does this make sense ? I know there are layers upon layers, on this plot, but is this the skeleton of this book?

Take that a step further. Does each character have a kindness that they themselves showed which came back around to save them later? In this life or the next? A sort of Karma in keeping with the Buddhist or Indian ideas of reincarnation?</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>Sylvan- at first I assumed those with birthmarks probably did something " good" to deserve the good karma they got.
Perhaps their good karma was to have good people around them- saving them from their bad fates.</p>

<p>I read that David Mitchell is neither a Christian or believe in reincarnation</p>

[ignatius]

<p>

@sylvan8798

Personally, I don’t have a problem with the idea that the characters could be reincarnations of the same spirit (or manifestations).

</p>

<p>I agree … and I didn’t find Cloud Atlas depressing. Hmm, now I’m wondering why? (Previous CC Book Club book Let the Great World Spin depressed the heck out of me and I didn’t find The Elegance of the Hedgehog particularly upbeat. But I digress …)</p>

[Mary13]

<p>sylvan8798, I like your interpretation. My problem with the reincarnation notion was that it suggested to me that the “comet-branded” people were The Chosen Ones. I didn’t like the idea of assigning greater value or purpose to one human life over another. But now I’m thinking that Cloud Atlas simply follows one particular thread—one spirit that moves through time. It doesn’t mean that the other characters—the other “souls”—are any less vital; we just don’t know their stories. Maybe Zachry and Rufus and Autua share a different birthmark…hopefully, not Timbo’s Turd. :)</p>

[BUandBC82]

<p>Everytime I read all of your comments, I see things I missed earlier. Mary, you said - “To me, the comet birthmark is a reminder that we are all connected, sons and daughters of Adam, if you will.” There were a lot of religious references in this book, but I totally missed that the story started with “Adam”.</p>

<p>I’m still having trouble with the connections between the characters. The way some of the characters “remember” feelings and scenes from another character’s life (the character’s with the birthmarks) makes me want to believe it is the same soul in a new body.</p>

<p>The latest post from the read along is great. It’s about the second half of Timothy Cavendish’s story. I love EditorialEyes thoughts on this section -

@EditorialEyes

This is a shockingly different read from Sonmi’s tale. The zany britcom feel, the blusterty first person of the wonderfully self-important Cavendish, and the much smaller stakes form such a contrast, and I take a moment to marvel that they were actually written by the same author.

She goes on to say -

@EditorialEyes

Tim can’t really be Luisa Rey reincarnated, because they are too close in history. He had to have been in his twenties or so at the time of Luisa’s capers at Swanekke Island. It is a red herring. I think, in fact this is the main reason for Timbo’s ghastly ordeal: it throws doubt on the whole thing. We still don’t know if Luisa’s story is fictional or not, which makes the first two stories ficitonal and which casts doubt on the comet shaped birthmark in the last two stories. It makes it impossible to draw one-to-one comparisons. No one character is absolutely certainly any other one character. There is no promise that this is the same set of souls living together over and over…

</p>

<p>Here’s the link for the section that includes the above quotes - [Cloud</a> Atlas Readalong Part 8: The Ghastly Ordeal of Timothy Cavendish (second half) | editorialeyes](<a href=“EditorialEyes Publishing Services”>Cloud Atlas Readalong Part 8: The Ghastly Ordeal of Timothy Cavendish (second half) – EditorialEyes Publishing Services)</p>

[psychmom]

<p>To me, the souls of the “comet” people highlight how much potential exists and serve as the optimistic force in the novel. I now want to re-read the book with this in mind. Adam Ewing had some prejudices but ultimately works to abolish slavery; Frobisher is an insecure artist who achieves musical perfection; Louisa Rey leaves her meaningless job and evolves into a high level investigator; Sonmi transforms from insignificant to Goddess; Cavendish rallies against ageism in a most unconventional way (even his comet has to be different); Meronym arrives by a Prescient ship to guide others to safety.</p>

<p>In this regard, each individual has the capacity to ascend. I think the comet is used not so much in a reincarnation way, but as a means of highlighting what each person (soul) can choose to do against the darker forces of human nature.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@psychmom

In this regard, each individual has the capacity to ascend. I think the comet is used not so much in a reincarnation way, but as a means of highlighting what each person (soul) can choose to do against the darker forces of human nature.

</p>

<p>I love this.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>^I agree too, Psychmom, with what you said about the capacity to ascend. You nailed it again. :)</p>

<p>Ignatius, I agree with you about Cloud Atlas being less depressing than Let the Great World Spin. I think the reason for this is that the characters in Cloud Atlas seem like real people; the characters in the other book were much more shallowly drawn.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>^ I thought the characters in Half-Lives: The First Luisa Rey Mystery were shallowly drawn, like stock characters from a potboiler. They didn’t seem real to me. At the same time, I recognize that Mitchell was imitating a genre and employing the necessary clich</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>Luisa Rey struck me as a character of some dimension. The other characters in her part of the book were much sketchier.</p>

[CJaneRead]

<p>The Luisa Rey part was my least favorite. Initially, I couldn’t understand why the author’s style has deteriorated so suddenly, until I understood that it was a deliberate choice of style.</p>

[psychmom]

<p>I have gained a deeper appreciation of the use of different writing styles, unique book structure and shifts in time. The author isn’t just saying look what I can do; he is challenging us to discover the individuality and growth of each soul. Even the arrogant Cavendish provides us with a important insight at the end of his story:</p>

<p>“Middle age is flown; but it is attitude, not years, that condemns one to the ranks of the Undead, or else proffers salvation. In the domain of the young there dwells many an Undead soul. They rush about so, their inner putrefaction is concealed for a few decades, that is all.”</p>

<p>On a lighter note, I personally nominate Mr. Meeks for President! I’d love to see him in the debates :)</p>