I think that, rather than a report card on parenting, helping your kid get into the best fit for him or her is the last major contribution one can make to his happiness and future success. That’s certainly why I’ve spent as much time as I have on worrying and learning and finding out how the process works–once my kid leaves for college, most of my job will be done. In that sense, having your kid be “successful” in his college search is a reflection on your parenting skills–because finding, and getting into, the right school means knowing your kid, his strengths and weaknesses, working with him to accentuate the one and mitigate the other, and helping him be both realistic and aspiring. A good outcome (by which I don’t, of course, mean the most prestigious) is one in which you are confident that he can grow and even shine, even though he is bereft of your daily guidance :). So in that sense, I understand people who think that this college search process represents the epitome of their parenting, the final judgment on them as well as on their kid, not so much from the point of view of what the world thinks of their or their kid’s college choice, but from what they hoped for and saw their kid work for, all these years. Even when you know that there are many years and turning points ahead, you can be forgiven, I think, for thinking that this is a peculiarly significant one.
Which is not to say that many people don’t invest the process with more than reasonable meaning, and more than appropriate emotional baggage. Just that the valence of the college choice is more than mere bragging rights or sticker pride.
Of course getting into and graduating from Harvard is a greater achievement than getting into and graduating from Pregame State. It isn’t a moral issue, or a direct index of parenting skills, but one requires more sustained skill than the other.
Maybe it depends on the person. Anyway, who cares? It’s just not a contest. I care about what my own kids do and where they go. Anyone else’s kids? Just not my problem or concern, other than a generic wish-them-all-well.
Nice post, marysidney. I do feel like a good parent when I have been intentional about truly understanding my child’s needs and wants, and strengths and weakness and have guided him/her accordingly.
Not that there aren’t times that we need to let our children try and fail, but too often I see kids head down paths that make absolutely no sense for them. Then they pay a big price in time, money, and self-esteem when it doesn’t work out…at all. These costly mistakes could have been avoided if an adult had taken the time to explain the way the world works or had made sure the kid knew and understood the necessary information. That information absolutely includes self-knowledge. The latter seems to be an area where parents drop the ball as far as guiding their offspring. Perhaps they fear hurting their child’s feelings or damaging his self-esteem, which of course is a valid concern. Still, sometimes a parent really needs to say, “Honey, that just isn’t a good idea for you and here’s why,” and maybe even “I am NOT going to let you do/wear/say/try X because you’ll make a complete fool of yourself!”
@sorghum, who’s achievement? Unless it’s someone who’s dad bought them in to Harvard, I’m complimenting the kid.
And even then, it’s just not that big of a deal. I mean, it’s impressive and all, but when I look around and take stock of people or achievements that I really respect, getting in to Harvard (or any college) just isn’t very high on the list. College is just the starting point. Where you go afterwards matters more.
Unless of course you can’t afford for your kid to attend the best fit school and they have to settle for the financial safety. That doesn’t mean they will not be just as successful. Plus a parent’s view on what is the best fit for the kid may not match what they want. Whose preference is more important? I agree that, if they can, parents should help guide their kid toward a good path, but it is not possible, or even always advisable, to force an 18 yo to follow the path the parent thinks is best. If the kid is bent on acting, but you know it is unlikely he or she will be successful, do you stop them from trying? I have asked the parent of one kid I know on that path what is plan B and the answer is that at this point there is none. If success doesn’t come, then she will have to come up with another plan. And she knows she will have to be a waitress or bar tender to pay the bills for some time to come.
Do you really think that kids that take the wrong path never had parents that did this? Of course some did, over and over again. But a hard headed 18 yo may not care. We see posts from kids on this very board where the parent is being rational and the kid still wants to borrow over $100K to go to a dream school, in some cases for a major for which there are few jobs. Of course we also see irrational parents who do not support their kids who are on positive paths.
^ Or irrational parents who push their children too hard toward the “positive” paths as perceived by the parents (and unfortunately not by the children.) Or the parents who spend too much (parent’s) money, well beyond their financial means. (Hopefully, I am not one of these parents!)
Agree with @PurpleTitan here, and in some ways I respect the University of Tailgaiters kid more than the Harvard kid for having the ability to see life as more than just a big competition among peers. Nothing wrong with competition, but elite schools have taken competition into the stratosphere. In fact, I just read an article this morning on how MIT is now cutting back workload in response to recent suicides on campus… this is just unacceptable IMO, but I’m glad MIT finally did something about it. Hopefully it helps.
Fractal- it’s not so black and white. At some of the University of Tailgater schools (gosh I hate this metaphor) the competition is about who is thinner and prettier for the women; who has the most random sex and spends the most nights “wasted”. Which is NOT to say that kids at Harvard don’t do this as well- so no flames- my point is that kids who are competitive will find a way to do so whether they are studying Ancient Greek at Harvard or studying Recreation at nowhere’sville U. I think your logic (that the kids at U Tailgater) are not competitive is not born out by facts. They are just not competing on their academic prowess.
Be very, very careful when trying to draw a straight line between suicide on any given campus and the workload, competition, stress, etc. I believe the last study I saw which examined the “peak” suicide years (which happens to coincide with the age of most college students) showed that suicide rates are higher among " non-college attending " kids of this age group, with a particularly troubling “spike” of both military and recent Vets.
It is easy to view a campus suicide as being cause and effect (too much academic pressure; kid kills himself) but the actual data on suicide is not so cut and dried.
Of course it is an immeasurable tragedy for everyone involved- such a sad and horrible thing. But I’d be careful before extrapolating.
My son was at MIT during a bit of a spike of suicides. It was sad and tragic and horrible. But in every case the kid in question had been under psychiatric care for depression/anxiety/suicidal ideation or previous attempts during HS. As a society we don’t seem to take mental health seriously-- particularly if the person is otherwise high performing. Very very sad.
And at “Tailgate State”, some kids are competing academically.
Just anecdotally, the better big sink-or-swim state schools that feel no compunction about failing kids seem more competitive than many private elites, so I wouldn’t leap to conclusions based solely on where someone went to school.
In general, stereotyping based on school just doesn’t make sense. I’ve met doofuses who graduated from an elite, really bright people from state schools, vice versa, both extremely competitive and slackerish folks from both, and all sorts of personalities from all different types of schools.
D2 goes to a “Tailgate State.” There are only 7 universities in the country which offer her major. All but Stanford are big state Us, and she did not have Stanford stats. There was intense competition to be accepted to the program at the end of sophomore year. Only 50 slots were available for the program. D2 worked her tail off to get a very high GPA and present a full “package” to the committee. When she was accepted, she sobbed on the phone. So I would not assume that there is not academic competition at state unis. Perhaps the depth isn’t there as compared to an elite school, but never assume. If you saw my D, you’d see that she LOOKs like the “typical sorority girl,” but there is a whole lot more to her than meets the eye.
I agree with you here, and I certainly fall more on the “Tailgage state” side of the fence than Harvard (even though I went to a small private engineering school). We had very sharp kids, kids who didn’t belong in college, and kids just looking to enjoy the college experience. In many ways I found this intellectual diversity to be ideal… always meeting people from different walks of life, seeing things from different perspectives, learning new skills. Some kids were academically competitive, and some were competitive when it came time to build the most powerful potato launcher!
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I read this in a blog today – the entire quote is: “College admissions is viewed in many circles as the ultimate report card on parenting, a single, permanent letter grade given at the end of 18 long years of loving effort.”
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While this may be true of “rankings obsessed” parents (often immigrants and int’ls), it’s not true of the general public.
Most people celebrate any child’s acceptances and college enrollment.
In general, stereotyping based on school just doesn’t make sense.
Agree. But there are schools where nearly anyone gets in, many aren’t so serious about their education. Still, that never says there aren’t kids who are and who make the most of the years, (academically.)
What you write about is very common in some parts of the immigrant community (it is not uncommon, for example, in societies that value hierarchy, like China and Korea,where parents see a kid going to a ‘top school’ as worth bragging about and a sign of ‘family achievement’, and ‘satisfying’ can be seen as shameful), it also had some basis going back in time in certain segments of the Jewish community (subject of many jokes by Jewish comedians), but it also is found among the upper middle class/nouveau riche class, where bragging rights over where the kids went to school is quite common and where parents sadly will think it fitting to comment on where another kid went to school as “oh, he/she is only going to X?” (this is very common in some private prep schools, where the holy grail is an Ivy or Ivy like school, and anything else is kind of viewed as failure).
I think among most people, though, this isn’t true, while most parents want their kid to get into a good program, I don’t think a majority of people take that much out of where their kids go to school, I think those who use it as a bragging right are a distinct minority of the population. People appreciate, for example, that a kid got into MIT or Harvard or whatever, but most people don’t see someone going to another school as failure, either or make a big deal about it.
As far as giving yourself a report card as a parent based on where the go to college, that is idiotic. Does that mean if the parents couldn’t afford to pay 70k a year in tuition to go to some prestigious school but their kid got a great scholarship at a state school they are bad parents? Maybe I am weird, but I judge parents only by what kind of kids they turn out, and even that is limited, if they tried to be good parents it means a lot more to me than raising a kid who goes to an Ivy league school and ends up working for a financial firm doing scummy things, or a kid who thinks everything in life is money or otherwise is not a great person shrug
