College Algebra vs Trig/Pre-Calc in 11th Grade [prospective business major]

Applying to College
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My third child is starting Junior year and is currently enrolled in Trig/Pre-Calc bc that was what his siblings did so I never considered another trajectory. However, he is by far the weakest student of the 3 with Math not being his strong suit. He asked if can switch down to College Algebra (he has taken Geometry and Algebra 2/Trig). He will most likely apply as a Biz major to large public state schools (Mizzou, Utah, Boulder etc). Do I need to push him to take the more rigorous class or will College Algebra be ok for the types of schools/major he will be applying to?

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You may want to check what each college website says for its recommendations. For example, this is what Boulder says a “strong” applicant will have:

  • 4 years (For the fourth year of Mathematics, a class at or above the level of Algebra 2. (Examples include: Statistics, Pre-Calculus, Trigonometry)*

And then under other factors:

  • Rigorous coursework (Leeds School of Business)

(I don’t know enough about college algebra to know if it would fit that math or rigor definition)

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Thanks - I don’t either! He’s planning to take AP Stats next year.

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College algebra may or may not be acceptable as a prerequisite for calculus-for-business-majors at colleges that offer that (versus regular calculus); many colleges will require a math placement test for those without AP calculus credit for placement into calculus versus precalculus courses.

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At your school, does College Algebra allow students to take Calculus Honors? Does it look like he’d get an A in it?
(If so, the GC indicating he’s “calculus-ready” will help).
In college, he will need to take Applied Calculus or Calculus for Business and the course tends to be weed out (although the Applied calc course tends to be less abstract and not as complete as the Calculus course the STEM majors take). So a rock solid understanding of college algebra would be needed to make sure he’s not weeded out.
There’s typically even more math for an Econ major.

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No, there is no Calculus Honors. The trajectory would be College Algebra for Sem 1 and Trigonometry for Sem 2 this year. Senior year he could take AP Stats.

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In addition to admission requirements, also check the math and statistics requirements for the business major at each college, along with their prerequisites and placement procedures.

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What are his math teachers saying? Do they think he should be in Pre Calc? It’s natural for a Senior to be in pre-calc and of course, many we see have it junior year and take Calc.

Unless his teachers say he’s not ready, I would stick with pre-calc and then stats next year.

While the schools you note aren’t overly competitive admission wise (Colorado could put him in exploratory, I suppose), Mizzou says this below - and if i’m reading for management (not the most quant heavy major), they require math 1400 - which is Calculus - so wouldn’t you want to be exposed now?

Maybe if he drops down, I’d still take pre-calc but maybe senior year.

But ultimately, I’d listen to the teacher from last year - where do they think your student should be?

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College Algebra and Trig seems to cover precalc at a slower pace. Even if your school doesn’t offer calculus honors, do they offer some sort of calculus and are students who took college Algebra+Trig eligible for calculus if they have an A? The key for a future business major is to be calculus ready, so if that combination allows calc its fine; if it doesn’t, he needs to give up on a business major, take precalc senior year, or take a math class that leads to calc in College jr year +stats senior year.
What final grade did he have this year?

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Hmmm…ok that makes sense. He always gets a high B in Math but can never get it to an A. So somewhere around an 88/89 every quarter. Our school only offers Trig/pre Calc (regular and Honors) and then AP Calc AB and BC. No regular Calc. I will talk to the Math teachers this week to try to figure out a plan. Its a large public high school so not a ton of support in this department.

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Seems like precalculus followed by calculus AB would be a reasonable choice for a student good enough in math to be on the +1 track but doing B+ work in math. Calculus AB is regular calculus but at a slower pace than calculus in college will be. You may want to check if a high enough AP calculus score can fulfill business major calculus requirements at the various colleges.

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I have to be honest, I’m not following why a pretty high B+ is seen as not good enough to do the next level?

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There is grade inflation of course - but the previous teacher should be the guide.

But yes it seems the student would be ready - and if they don’t like/want to take it - they might have to consider another major or lower tier school.

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Does math take up a lot of his time to get that 88-89?

Do ask the school if College Algebra+Trig can be followed by calculus.

Is he interested in other majors? (Communication, accounting, agribusiness, industrial psycholoy…?)

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Then college algebra/trig in 11th seems to be on track to being a strong applicant for Boulder. I would not jump from that to calculus, however.

What about regular trig/precalc as an option for 11th?

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This would vary HS to HS, college to college, but when my youngest took Algebra 2 in 9th grade, it was almost exactly the same content as the College Algebra my middle kid was a TA for at the same time (TA at a college).

My youngest never got higher than a B in any math or science class in HS. Easily got a 5 on Calc AB - I would go with pre calc.

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As a business major, calculus will be required at the college level. It would be extremely helpful if your child takes calculus in HS (doesn’thave to be at an honors level). For that reason and given that it was recommended, I’d suggest taking pre-calc in 11th grade.

Personal anecdote: My S did not take calc in HS and went to a top 50 b-school program. When he took calculus in college he was one of only about four or so students out of a class of 40 who had no prior exposure to calculus. He got through the class, but it was challenging and time consuming.

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Digging through business major web sites, it looks like:

Other schools:

In other words, it is possible that he may be able to avoid calculus as a business major, but that is not assured unless he wants to restrict his choice of colleges significantly and look into whether calculus is required before making his application list. However, even where calculus is not required, other math is likely to be required.

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He may need to look into each course to see what it includes. When I did mathematics for business back in the dark ages, it included some calculus. The Utah math 1105 course that your link references includes some differentiation and integration. I couldn’t figure out from the link what the relevant Boulder course was.

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The other thing is we don’t know about the student / stats, budget and more. If Colorado is chosen, of those listed, it’s likely priciest (of OOS) and many students will be put in Exploratory Studies and have to transfer as it’s a popular b school.

GPA and Credit Hour Requirements:

  • 24 credit hours completed, 12 of which must be graded coursework at CU-Boulder
  • CU Cumulative GPA of 3.20 or higher

Completion of the following courses with grade of B or higher.

  • ECON 2010: Microeconomics
  • ECON 2020: Macroeconomics
  • Math 1112: Mathematical Analysis in Business
    • Offered to non-business students in the spring & summer semesters. No math placement score is required.
  • Statistics (choose from: APPM 3570, CHEN 3010, CVEN 3227, ECON 3818, INFO 1301, IPHY 3280, MATH 2510, MATH 3510, MATH 4510, PSCI 2075, PSYC 2111, PSYC 3101, SOCY 2061, and STAT 4000)
    • AP Statistics DOES NOT count for the Leeds IUT stats requirement.