College Analyses Spreadsheet for Engineering

Everyone … thanks for your ideas and information. I didn’t know that a student required a certain GPA (like at Texas A&M) to specify a major for sophomore year.

@mom2collegekids I am actually the mom, not the student. I have twins.

Stats: My daughter scored a 35 on the ACT. I think she will be a National Merit Scholar with a 221 in TX, but we don’t know. She just took the new SAT and scored a 1550. Has awards in science fair and destination imagination. Plays tennis for the school, but not a star. Does service work through Interact. Made a 5 in AP World. Took AP Calc A/B; AP Chem; AP English; DC US History; and AP Physics. Won’t know scores until July. Top 2-3% rank in class. GPA 5.0

Son - scored a 35 on ACT. Probably won’t be National Merit Scholar; has a 215 in TX. Was an International Science Fair finalist (ISEF); Eagle Scout; Wrestler - made it to state, but did not place. Made 5s in AP World and AP Human. Took same courses as my daughter junior year. Top 2-3 % rank in class. GPA 4.97 out of I guess 5??? We have level (4); honors (5), and AP (6).

How does specifying a major work if you have already completed many of your freshman requirements? I think they will have quite a few AP credits to where they could maybe be classified as sophomores spring semester.

If they take advanced placement, then they would take second semester frosh or first semester sophomore level courses in their first semester.

Colleges that restrict entry to majors typically include sophomore level courses or other courses that cannot be exempted with AP credit in the course work used to evaluate applicants to majors.

For example, Texas A&M says at https://engineering.tamu.edu/28784.aspx

For comparison, http://dars.tamu.edu/Testing/AP,-SAT,-ACT,-and-Other-Information-for-Incoming-F/files/AP_Requirements.aspx lists what courses Texas A&M students can be exempt from with AP credit.

Thanks @ucbalumnus. So, at A&M, if they decide to take the credits, they could have the first two calculuses, the first two chemistrys, and one of the physics classes. Are the engineering classes (ENGR 111 and 112), the general engineering overview classes that the freshmen need to take? Also, if they were to take AP credit for the math, chemistry, and physics, do they then take the next level math and physics, since they are probably the same for all engineering disciplines??? Thanks for this information. A&M is high on the list, since it offers full tuition for national merit, has a good reputation, and is not too far from home.

I appreciate your patience as this is more complicated than when I went to school, and I was just able to pick a major and start on the course requirements. And my school didn’t offer AP classes.

Yes, students who take the advanced placement just take the next level courses, but should check their desired majors to see which ones are required for them. Engineering majors can diverge after the frosh level (e.g. chemical engineering requires more chemistry than most others). You can check the Texas A&M engineering web sites to see what courses each engineering major wants.

Some schools won’t allow certain AP credits to count. For example, you may not be able to get general chemistry credit if you are looking to be a chemical engineering. Though you may be able to just sit for the final (though the colleges do not often make that option known).

Yes, if I recall correctly, UVa engineering didn’t take my son’s AP Physics B 5 score. He had 5’s on AB and BC calculus as well but was advised at orientation to not skip to Calculus 3, or whatever it would have been. I just remember he was told he didn’t need to feel he should jump ahead, that getting a solid start was important. I don’t think Virginia Tech engineering took my other son’s AP Physics B 5 score either. I think it has to be calculus based? I would check with the individual schools about use of AP credits if that is an important consideration. Might be on their websites.

Ok, thanks. That might have to be a column on the spreadsheet. My husband took them to visit OU, and they were able to meet with professors. They advised taking the AP credits, since the students should already know the material. (Initially, we thought it might be advantageous for the kids to repeat the course to get a jump on their GPA/gain a better foundation.) So, it really seems to depend on the university.

I forgot that the GPA to keep the Texas A&M scholarship is 3.5. That is a consideration as there is a significant risk to losing the scholarship, which would take away that advantage from going to A&M.

@mom2collegekids We will NOT qualify for any financial aid. We (the parents) are willing to pay up to in-state costs, while considering price increases/incidentals. However, obviously we would prefer to pay the least amount possible.

One major consideration for us is companies that recruit at the university.

If you are concerned about companies that recruit, look at destination reports, college fair info.

Ultimately, I think its up to the kid (and maybe his/her parents) to make the determination of using all AP credits. How comfortable does the kid feel with his/her ability in a given subject. Is the place to potentially be skipped the last in that subject or one of many. If you would be done with that subject, why not use the credit. Sometimes a middle ground can be helpful. If you can skip two classes in a series, maybe just skip one. Second in the series should be a review to a large extent but the pace of college classes is different than even high school AP classes.

One place unused classes can be helpful from what I have seen is with minors. And depending on whether limits on AP credit are by university or by department, they may help with double major as well.

@micgeaux “I forgot that the GPA to keep the Texas A&M scholarship is 3.5.”

In that case, it is important to understand what the average gpa is and an approximate percentage of students who achieve a 3.5 gpa. For example, if the average TAMU gpa is a 3.3 and 30% of students have a 3.5 gpa, you may be a lot less concerned than if the average gpa is 2.8 and only 10% have a 3.5. It is good to know the facts up front and collect this information on your visits if it is not published.

AP physics B (or 1 or 2) is basically never accepted for advanced placement by engineering majors, since it is not calculus-based, and engineering majors must take calculus-based physics. Sometimes, AP physics C is accepted for advanced placement, but sometimes not, due to the lower math intensity in the AP course (which has calculus as a co-requisite) compared to most college courses (which usually have calculus 1 as a prerequisite and calculus 2 as a co-requisite for mechanics, and multivariable calculus as a co-requisite for E&M).

Still, lots of students do use AP calculus credit for advanced placement. Seems like the obvious thing for colleges to do is post the old calculus 1 and 2 final exams on their web sites, so that students unsure of their calculus knowledge can test their knowledge against the college’s standards.

Yes, a 3.5 GPA requirement to continue a scholarship can be stress-inducing, and can encourage “GPA protection” like pre-med and pre-law students do (e.g. looking for “easy A” courses for any elective options, rather than choosing elective options primarily on interest and usefulness, even if there is a risk of getting a B+ or lower grade).

As a side note - how does your daughter have a 5.0 GPA? Is every class she’s ever taken an honors class? Even art and foreign languages? (And yet she’s only top 2-3% of her class?)

My daughter has all As, so UW GPA 4.0. My son has one B in English for fall semester this school year, so his UW GPA, just guessing is probably 3.96??

Third year foreign language is 5; 1st and second year are 4.0; choir and tennis are 4.0; AP classes are 6.0 and all other core classes, she has taken PRE-AP (basically honors), and those are 5.0. So, of the classes that my twins have taken, they have taken the highest level of the class (i.e, the core classes). Our school is HIGHLY, HIGHLY competitive. We have around 650 students in their class. So, 2% is 13th or so. The TOP students are those that can speak a foreign language and are able to take AP Spanish, Chinese, etc. in their freshman year. This is a 6.0 class. So, that student gets a boost freshman year, and then because they are finished with the foreign language requirement, they get another boost sophomore year because they can take another AP class rather than their second or third year of foreign language. (High school Spanish is offered in 8th grade in our school system.) Pre-AP Spanish II (second year Spanish) is a 4.0 class. Third year Spanish is a 5.0 class. Also, the state only requires one year of PE and one year of fine arts to graduate. So if you are in athletics or choir or band, that is a 4.0 class. If you are not an athlete or a choir/band kids, you can take another AP class, a 6.0 class. These are the kids at the top of our class. Some kids go to summer school to take PE so that they can take another AP class during the school year. Also, do you know that you can take PE through an online course through Texas Tech? Online PE - cracks me up. :slight_smile:

My kids weren’t interested in summer school, and frankly, I forbid it. I think summer is a time to pursue other interests or attend some great camp/program in a field that you are interested. I encouraged them to stay in tennis and wrestling because that is when they had time to socialize, and it was an outlet for stress, and it is more stressful to take yet another AP class.

I knew our school was competitive, but because I have twins, who have almost the exact same classes and grades, I found out how bad it is. So, my daughter had a 5.0, and my son had a 4.97, less than a tenth of a point, yet they were 3 or 4 students apart in rank. This may not seem like a lot of students, but when the top 10% is only 65 students, it can make a difference in your rank.

Sorry for the long explanation. We have tried really hard to balance academics (especially classes like AP Chem; AP Calc; and AP Physics) with having some other interests/fun.

Ah, now I see why colleges have to renormalize (or just look at UW GPA). I think the “standard” weighting is 1 bonus point for AP, and either 0.5 or 1 bonus point for honors classes. I’ve never heard of a bonus point just for a 3rd year of a language… (I’d also never heard of more than 1 bonus point either.) Not that I’m necessarily wise to the ways of the world either… :slight_smile:

What state / area are you from?

I can see how that grading scale incentivizes (pressures?) kids to take tons of AP classes… Interesting…

I created a very elaborate spreadsheet when my kids were searching for engineering colleges. I don’t know how to post an Excel spreadsheet here so I would just list the columns of info that we were tracking. Each family has their own priority on what’s important about the school and how they would make the decision, so the spreadsheet would be different.

For ours, on the left hand columns were all the engineering schools that my kids were interested in. On the top across were the following columns:

School name
City
State
National Rank
Engineering College Rank
Major Rank (the specific major of interest)
Setting (Large City, Small City, Large town, Rural, Suburban, etc)
Size (Very Large, Large, Medium, Small, Very Small)
GPA (average GPA accepted into this school)
SAT (1600) (Top 25% SAT score accepted)
SAT (2400) (Top 25% SAT score accepted)
ACT (Top 25% accepted)
Interest (how interested your child is regarding this school)
CAPPEX chance (% probability of acceptance based on CAPPEX prediction)
Parchment (% probability of acceptance based on Parchment prediction)
Niche (% probability of acceptance based on Niche prediction)
My Change (average of all 3 predictions above)
Acceptance Rate (the actual college acceptance rate)
High School Acceptance Rate (the % applicant from your high school got in based on Naviance data)
ED/RD ratio ((the ratio of acceptance from your high school got in applying ED vs RD based on Naviance data)
Tuition (the cost of attendance per college data)
Financial Aid (the average financial aid given by the college)
Net Price (the expected family contribution based on the college’s net price calculator)
Student Rating (out of 10, based on studentreview.com)
Competitive or Collaborative (out of out of 10, based on various student review websites)
Interview Required (yes, no, or optional, date interviewed)
ED/EA (deadline of early decision or early action)
RD (deadline of regular decision)
Scholarship (deadline if applying school specific scholarships)
Tracking Interests (college needs demonstrated interest or not)
Visited (date visited the campus)

There were other different pages to the spreadsheet. The other pages were tracking the recommendation letters, school reports, essay completion, college application submission dates, scholarship applications, financial and scholarship award, and acceptance results, etc. which my kids were updating themselves.

We started with about 40 schools, visited over two dozens schools after discussed with the high school counselor for input, then narrow down to about 18 schools. With those 18, we filled out the spreadsheets, then took a hard look at the “My Chances” and the “Net Prize” columns, then assign the “interest” ranking, and narrow the list down to about 12 schools.

The dozen of schools were then color coded as “Dream”, “Reach but not impossible”, “Fit & comfortable”, and “Safety”. Further adjustments, perhaps deleting some schools, take some from the “not very interested” pile were necessary until each of the 4 categories has the same amount of schools. This list was shared and discussed with their counselors again to get feedback and suggestions.

Note that both of my kids had completed all their SAT/ACT tests by October of their Junior year so there were final scores to fill out the online chancing websites to derive “My Chances”. They also had very intense but very small number of extra curriculum activities that were a constant for 7 or 8 years, so there were no major changes in the senior year EC. However, some of the chances predicted for the mid-tier schools could still be overly optimistic because college application is such a crab shoot, so make sure do some hard search for the fit and safety schools first. It does take time to enter all the stats and activities to get the online website to spit out some random prediction without considering the essays or passion, so take the numbers with a grain of salt. If the probability is really low, the reality can be only dimer.

The high school stats from Naviance gave a pretty accurate prediction on how one would fare against the rest of the students from the same high school who got accepted over the last 6 years period, and if applying ED have better chances than RD. For example, there were only one or two students got into Brown and Yale from our high school over the years, so even though these are great schools, we put them on the back burner and opt for other Ivies instead.

Also, we made sure that the “Safeties” were schools that my kids would be happy to attend and perhaps can be accepted to the Honors program or get some scholarships. I think we spent more time looking for safeties and fit than the Ivies.

Finally, we look at the scholarship and application deadlines, then arrange the schools in sequence to apply accordingly. My kids put the deadlines onto their Google calendar so they can track it themselves.

For my son who did not want to apply to any ED, he just followed the order and applied to one school a week, with most of the essays drafted by September. He applied to all 12 schools, ended up going to his “safety” because it was the economically sensible choice for him.

For my daughter who wanted to apply ED to her dream school, she cut her list in half, applied to the ones she really liked before the ED decision announcement date (in early-December), figured if she did not get into the ED school, she at least have others in the works, she would hurry up and apply to as many of the second batch as possible. She ended up got into her ED school and proceeded to withdraw all other applications on Christmas Day.

This elaborate spreadsheet sounds crazy, but it did help us track interests with some hard statistics. Kids changes their minds so often that they need different tools to keep them on track.

Remember that high school kids have little or no exposure to engineering courses so think of the alternatives he’ll have at each school if he doesn’t like engineering or wants to do a different kind of engineering. My son was sure he wanted to be a chemical engineer then switched to computer engineering.