If you look at the current CDS, there is not a huge between Stanford and Swarthmore in percent lower scoring admits. For example, the percent of students under 600 averaged across all the SAT sections is ~4% at both schools. Also note that a large portion (perhaps most) of those 4% are not athletes, so most athletes are not in this range. Both schools also have a similar athlete graduation rate. Stanford has a 98% GSR grad rate and 95% FGR grad rate, while Swarthmore was 94% a few years ago. I’m not saying athletics are the same at Stanford and Swarthmore (they are not), only that the two schools have a similar portion of “lower” scoring class members and likely a similar impressive degree of academic success among student athletes.
@northwesty, actually, elite privates give nudges to (elite) poets and violinists all the time.
For that matter, music schools/bands/orchestras at publics also hand out scholarships to musicians.
And UW-Madison offers scholarships to kids talented in hip-hop and spoken word: https://omai.wisc.edu/
There is a categorical difference between admissions support provided to athletes in the Ivy and high academic D3 schools and the system that exists in most if not quite all non Ivy D1 schools. As I have said previously, I personally know kids competing right now at excellent academic schools who would not be admittable in the Ivy, or
Swarthmore for that matter. It is just a completely different system. There is also a very significant difference in the amount of control exerted over most athletes schedules, academic and otherwise, between regular D1 on the one hand and the Ivy and D3 schools on the other
Very interesting. Didn’t know that. It’s not, for men anywhere else. Only money available is need base at Ivys and merit base at other schools.
BTW-as a general observation- as far as athletes being admitted who otherwise wouldn’t qualify…when we met with the Princeton coach he proudly stated his team had the highest average gpa of any other sport and it was in keeping with the general student body. Just because you are a recruited athlete does not mean you are not academically matched for the school.
Not all school athletics and programs are the same.
MIT actually doesn’t offering rowing scholarships - women’s rowing is the only Division 1 program at the school, but still doesn’t give scholarships, like the ivies.
Most parents would be shocked to find out how much lower some DI athletes academic stats are than the typical students. Football players at U of Florida, basketball players at UNC come to mind. You’ve got players sitting in classes with students who on average have SAT scores 400-500 points higher than theirs and wonder why cheating scandals like the one at UNC happen. The whole system lends itself to improprieties.
And I know a kid at Swarthmore who wouldn’t be there without baseball. Coming out of a hs where 50% of the kids take a heavy load of gifted and talented/ap classes, he took none. Even with straight A’s he couldn’t come close to the top 25th of his hs class.
My D goes to a HS that the vast majority of students accepted to Ivy are athletes. They are good students but most are not in the top 10% and probably would not have been accepted accept for their athletic ability. My D is a senior swimmer and many of her teammates are trying to get into very selective schools using their swimming and not so selective so they can continue to swim. My daughter and I have come to the decision not to pursue that path.
My belief is that participating in high level sports at college restricts your ability to participate in other very important areas that will make a real difference in your life later. My older D is taking 18 hours/semester to get dual degrees in 4 years as well internships in the summer and research during the year. She is being courted by employers. My younger would not be able to do that and swim 4 hrs/day for 49 weeks/yr which is what she does now. Swimming would not enhance her employability.
I have spoken to the mothers of the athletes that go to the Ivy for sports and have found their schedules to be unbelievable. They are up at 4:30 am, practice to 11:00am, classes in the afternoon, meetings, homework and tutoring at night. GPAs suffer. It is grueling and I admire the athletes that do it but I want different opportunities for my D.
Yes it takes tremendous dedication on their part and if they can’t keep up they don’t stay. I can only speak to the few Ivy athletes we know and they are not slackers. I would argue that in some respects the demands of their sport make them even better students. A certain discipline is required to maintain a high GPA and stay at an Ivy. One student athlete we know at Yale had over the top
Academic stats in HS and was class valedictorian. But to listen to some folks here you’d assume he stole that spot from someone else more deserving.
Are there athletes at college programs who aren’t academically ready to be placed? Sure. Is it the majority of student athletes? Again you need to look at the specific colleges and sport. Apples and oranges folks. @GTAustin I do worry sometimes that my son will be spread thin committing to the huge time commitment that is his sport but he’s demonstrated during his four years of HS that he can do this demanding sport and still maintain GPA and test scores. Does he run the risk of missing out on ECs or intern opportunities? Perhaps. The older guys on his soon to be team spoke to summer internships and study abroad so maybe his sport is more forgiving. Who knows…
Middle D is at an Ivy, and a recruited athlete. Her schedule is pretty intense in season, but doable. Not, to play the “in my day card”, but when I played in the mid 80s, 25-30 hours, for sports related activities, during the season, was pretty common, and that did not include game day (which would be an all day commitment). In her case, she can miss practice anytime something school related started to take an issue. As for her sliding in, in her case both her GPA (3.9+) and score (about 2200) are just at the 50th percentile of accepted students for her school–so, being an athlete certainly helped, but in no way did she slide in…
@tonymom, My D, during HS, has also been able to keep a 4.0 with AP classes, works a job, and swims 20 hours/wk I agree that keeping her busy during HS keeps her focused and gives her great time management skills. I just know I was surprised at the difference between HS and college for my older D. She also was a 4.0 student, toughest classes, had high SAT scores, played in the band and also worked. Her first semester in college was quite a shock. She did take 18 hrs with 2 honors courses in engineering but got her first B ever. She was always studying. Luckily, she did not have to work or have other commitments beyond academic ones. The athletes that she has in classes are getting lower grades and some are having to repeat classes in the summer because of their sport’s schedule but that is how they are getting their education, so not a choice.
The Ivy League athletic conference restricts athletes to a maximum of 20 hours per week of countable athletic activities, and a max of 4 hours per day. They also have limits on travel time and various other typical ways of exceeding these maximums. I realize there are ways to get around the limits, but regularly practicing from 5:00 AM to 11:00AM is not typical.
I walked on to the crew team at Stanford (not a recruited athlete). Our bus left for practice at 6AM and returned to campus with enough time to get to 9AM classes… just barely enough for persons who wanted to change and cleanup. We’d have morning practices like this 6 days per week, and shorter afternoon conditioning type practices for a few days per week. It worked out to about as many hours as a typical part time job would require. We also received a small academic credit that counted towards degree and permitted slightly lighter schedules, like one would get for taking a college yoga/karate/conditioning/… class. While this is a notable time commitment, it still permits plenty of time for academics and other outside activities. I think the biggest difficulty students would find with this schedule is waking up in time for 6AM practices, but this was necessary to avoid interfering with academic class schedules. According to the article at http://www.gostanford.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209902844 , most Stanford male rowers find the time to be engineering school majors, which has a reputation for having a notable time requirement and demanding class schedule.
As noted I was not a recruited athlete and did not receive a scholarship or other direct benefit. Instead I did crew because it seemed like a interesting and enjoyable activity that I would not otherwise have an opportunity to do, outside of college . I also joined the cycling club-team for similar reasons. My experience was that the vast majority of students do not just spend all their time studying and not doing much else. Instead they enjoy and have the time to spend a good portion of their week in non-academic activities, most that are not sports, but are still often quite impressive. This likely relates to the HYPSM… holistic admissions of emphasizing students who spend a good portion of time doing non-academic activities in HS, beyond just sports.
At our high school the only kids who go to Stanford are recruited athletes. Most do not have the best stats. All this emphasis on sports (and volunteer activities) is keeping kids from doing what they should be doing: work! All the jobs used to be done by teens, from chores like mowing the lawn or housekeeping to working at the local fast food or bagging groceries, are now done instead by illegal immigrants, because our teens are now too busy playing sports, doing volunteer work, practicing their musical instrument or joining clubs on top of their 10 APs and test prepping. All the volunteer activities that they do at hospitals and other places also increase unemployment. I’ve heard from adults that they can’t get jobs at the local hospital because there are so many volunteers from the local high school. Holistic admissions is the stupidest concept ever invented.