I am having trouble figuring out what exactly is bothering me about this entire thread. I think it’s your attitude about your situation. You seem to have refused to participate in things that you knew would strengthen your application because that would be “pandering”. But now you find yourself in a situation where you are at a school that you do not find challenging. Would a little “pandering” have maybe been worth it? To be honest with you, “pandering” is part of life/careers. You usually have to do (within reason) what your supervisor expects of you whether you like it or not.
If you’re not careful, I am concerned you are going to have a similar issue when it comes to grad school. Instead of fighting the system, work with it, in a way that works for you. I assume you want to get into a more challenging grad school? What do you think those schools are looking for? I suspect it might involve getting good grades (doesn’t seem to be a problem for you), being involved in some activities and getting some good letters of recommendation. Are the things you’re doing now helping you? Telling profs that their classes are too easy isn’t going to help. Instead. like another poster said, go to office hours and engage them. Talk about things that interest you. I’m sure they’d be happy to talk about the subject and their interests to you. If they like you they will love to have you help with research and will be good options for recommendation letters later. I am not suggesting you be disingenuous, but accept that maybe you can learn something from those around you. In addition, taking SUPER high level courses will probably not help. I’m afraid you’ll find yourself in the situation you’re in now where a grad school will not accept all the graduate level classes you took as an undergrad and you will find yourself repeating courses/bored again.
@austinmshauri: I suppose we’ll just agree to disagree on that point then. Denying students of any academic challenge regardless of their opinions or the alleged purpose of school may be egalitarian, but all it does is show how hypocritical the education system is: nothing more than a handful of politicians constantly in need of new scapegoats. To answer your second comment, I am currently taking such courses to do just that. I never intended to go straight to graduate level courses, but simply want to take a few courses that are hard enough to where I can no longer just coast through them without any effort. Everyone has a limit to how far they can go before they need to learn study skills; mine is just very late. I’d rather struggle with these things in undergrad than grad school, where the stakes are much higher. Staying in “regular” classes will not do anything but delay that difficulty until a time where it becomes far more of a problem. Your overall stance on the matter reminds me of that of those people who promoted “inclusion” in the classroom, which may have sounded great on paper but works very poorly in practice.
@lookingforward: Obviously you did not read my comment in detail and thus took it out of context. By “not tolerate” I meant that I was not going to lie about my ideological beliefs to increase my chances of acceptance to college. “Pandering” here refers to the providing of ideological gratification by focusing on topics of interest to those with political power and also telling them what they want to hear concerning those matters, regardless of one’s own personal opinion. Such behavior is obviously disingenuous; that is why I said I wouldn’t tolerate it by participating. The second comment is a complex question fallacy: I have already stated that I have tried other avenues to improve the situation, both through research with faculty and self-study, so in that context the question makes no sense due to the false premise.
@PrdMomto1: You also misunderstood my comment; read my response to @lookingforward. In the way I defined it, yielding a little and “pandering” means lying on my college application and diverting the focus from me, neither of which are productive. I did everything I realistically could have to strengthen my application last year: I had decent grades, test scores, and I did (contrary to most people’s assumptions here) participate in organizations where I was on good terms with the leaders. I was isolated for most of my life and had two working parents, so it wasn’t really possible to participate to the same extent as public school students, but I did make these limitations clear in my application and tried my best to make a good case for acceptance. College admissions is just so competitive that I wasn’t expecting to get accepted anywhere, and I almost didn’t. I don’t think any ethical action would have changed what happened last year. For this reason I don’t expect to get into any grad school either, and am not sure if I even want to continue school since my own experience has been uniformly terrible. I also am not expecting any credits to transfer to grad school at all, especially since many of the graduate courses here are comparable in difficulty and scope to advanced undergrad ones at many other colleges. I’ve already tried “working with the system”, but the system itself is neither cooperative in the classroom nor outside it in some secondary academic setting. I also make it a rule to only visit office hours if I have a question specific to the class, else I will simply be wasting the person’s time. Office hours are very limited and the other students could make use of this far better than I could. I am also very hesitant to tell anyone about my situation; in class I just pretend that I’ve never seen the material before in order to irritate the least number of people. I bring books to read to not become too agitated when little is happening.
Have you meet with any dept to inquire whether or not you could take final exams for lower level courses and if you pass them, place into the highest level you qualify for?
OP, your school’s faculty includes 2 Nobel laureates and 3 Pulitzer prize winners. I doubt you have exhausted the intellectual challenges offered there.
I don’t think the OP will be wasting faculty time by attending office hours, at least if the time is spent discussing areas of mutual academic interest. Time spent moaning about politicians and ideology and how these supposedly are affecting your learning and prevented you from attending better schools would not be a good use of office hours, though.
I agree. My ds, also homeschooled, graduated from high school with more advanced coursework than the OP. Instead of spending time being frustrated, he spent time talking to his profs about questions outside of the scope of the course. They lent him books from their personal libraries. They would give him topics to think about. They became great mentors and encouragers.
The OP has 2 options. He can find a way to meet his intellectual needs within the system or not. Only he can make the decision as to which way to go.
Fwiw, as a former homeschooler who knows how to use intellectual freedom, learning ways to comply and grow at the same time can be a goal. (My ds spent 18 hrs+ per week on research on top of taking 18 cr hrs. Research is where he thrived. He loves it. It has been the air he breathes since 8th grade. Opportunities to excel and thrive exist, but more than likely you will have to search for them bc they rarely come and find you.)
OP- kids get into college every year writing essays about chamomile tea, baking brownies, raking leaves. One of mine wrote about getting grease stains out of a polyester fast food uniform. I don’t know where you got the idea that your essays need to be ideological, or “pander”, or anything else.
If you dropped your defense mechanisms about how and why you ended up in the college where you are, I think within a couple of weeks you’d find yourself wonderfully challenged. Forget whatever half baked notions you have about campus politics and the stupidity of the educational system. Dive in. The only thing holding you back is you.
Bringing books to read to class- that’s a great excuse to attend office hours. I’m going to be flabbergasted if a college kid has a better curated reading list than an actual professor. Show up at office hours, tell the professor what you are reading, and get him or her to suggest something more challenging and interesting to you.
You fundamentally misunderstand the point of grad school btw. But you are paying university professors already- why not get them to explain it to you.
What comes across is you have a grudge. No matter what you think about the “system,” it IS what exists. So, you didn’t get into more competitive colleges.
The colleges get to choose their classes. It’s not pandering (or some of the other uncomfortable lingo you present) to apply to colleges where you match and show that match. And that’s a lot more than stats and what you want, where you think you belong.
So you’re at GMU, a fine college in many respects. But not the right match for your preferences. You have choice: you either work with them or you leave the situation.
The world isn’t built on “us,” what we want, what we think we deserve. That’s not pandering. It’s awareness, perspective, maturity, willingness to get along with others and do what’s expected of us.
A life lesson. A good one to learn, before you burn too any bridges.
Classes are not the only way to maximize these years. Pick the right battles. And watch the 'tude. You reap what you sow.
What makes you think that because your professors refused to let you take advanced courses as a freshman that it means they never let anyone place out of lower level courses? You just seem to be looking for things to support your negative view of the education system.
I think you’re wasting the opportunity you’ve been given. You were isolated from your peers during high school and had limited opportunities to do much more than self-study topics that interested you, yet now that you’re surrounded by Nobel Prize winners and others with similar interests you’re wasting time railing against the system instead of taking advantage of the opportunities in front of you.
You have two options. Continue on your current path, which isn’t getting you very far, or learn to navigate the educational system so you can get what you need out of it. If you develop good study skills (go to the tutoring center for pointers), are able to build relationships with your professors, and can prove your abilities in lower level courses they may let you take finals to see if you know enough to place into some upper level courses. But if you approach them with your current attitude don’t expect it to get you very far.
@syntacticalbeing The reason I’m saying this is because, if you came into the workforce with that attitude, you wouldn’t last long, no matter how smart you are. You could transfer to another school if you want, but I doubt it’s going to make that much difference. It’s still a bachelors degree. I know you’ve waited for “years” for a greater challenge…but so has everyone else. You have to work with the system you have in order to get to the next level, that’s just life. Is it perfect? No. Does it work with your timeline? No. But it gets you to the next level. The point of college is to expand your mind and stretch you in a variety of areas. Take classes in other subjects. Take a course in Music Literature or Criminal Justice.
@roycroftmom: That’s true only if you include affiliated people who are currently deceased. The way you wrote it is highly misleading. It’s also not a very strong argument, ignoring the problematic counting. All of those people work in entirely different fields from me.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek: Everyone here speaks as if I have done nothing to address this yet, when that’s obviously not the case. I’m currently involved in research and am familiar with the range of topics of interest in both the math and physics departments (since I’ve read faculty’s papers, attended colloquia, and met professors and grad students in person). In the math department, outside of numerical methods and a few specific topics in topology, knowledge is very limited, which in turn affects the courses offered in the same way. (For example, if I wanted to study even a subject as fundamental as Lie algebras, I would be hard pressed to find anyone to work with). The physics department mostly has people who work in nontraditional areas of research (for physicists) such as engineering or biological physics. I could in principle work with some of them and learn quite a bit about interdisciplinary research that involves some physics, but for anything else I’ll be on my own after covering the material in the standard introductory graduate level courses.
@blossom: My tone here must come across to you as more angry than I am in real life. I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. To be clear, there was no hint at all of this “grudge” in my application, nor in my interactions with faculty (save for a few people I’m working very closely with, who do understand at this time). There are a few things that I think some professors could help me learn well, but for the main topics I’ll be on my own due to the limitations.
@austinmshauri: It’s not really the professors so much as how the administration structures the requirements. I’ve talked to enough students who have similar problems (with e.g. the intro to programming course) to know that it doesn’t happen (or at least it only happens under extreme circumstances with respected people who are willing to argue forcefully for the case). I’ve also attempted this myself and offered to prove that I know the prerequisite material, but this backfired on me. I should have never gone to college in the first place.
@coolguy40: This is more or less a statement that education is merely meant to groom a population to be enslaved to the government, something which I am not at all surprised by. The reason why I haven’t touched other subjects is because I would actually learn even less than in my current ones. Too many students take those courses for an easy “good” grade, and that pressure shows in the curriculum. I already got my basic education in those subjects earlier; going further means wasting my time on the barely-high-school-level intro courses before I get to anything interesting.
You can’t be at a college that serves the whole student population and expect to buck rules and expectations as one individual.
Most colleges have limitations. You are not at one of the few that give students more free reign. The question is, what will you do about that? What will YOU do?
Honestly, based on your posts, no, it does not seem like you have done everything you can. You stated you don’t want to waste professors’ time by visiting them during office hrs. It isn’t wasting their time. You approach them with questions that you have about the subject that are outside the scope and abilities of the rest of the students in the classroom. You ask them questions about the theories behind what is being taught. You ask about proofs. You ask if they can suggest additional reading on the subject.
It is only Oct of your freshman yr and you are declaring “knowledge is limited.” It is why no one in this thread accepts your premise. It is based on a false perception bc there is no way your understanding exceeds your professors even if the areas are outside of their expertise.
What research project are you working on that you are actively engaged in/how many hours per week? How did you become involved in the project within such a short time on campus? Have you approached that professor as being a mentor? (“Attending colloquia” is not participating in research. Are you engaged in working on a professor’s research? See, from my perspective, your posts don’t ring true bc I have had 3 students enter college at similar or more advanced academic levels and I know what steps they have taken to join research projects. I know their relationships with their professors. And, no, at somewhere around 8 weeks of being a student on campus, they hadn’t figured out how to navigate everything to meet their needs.)
OP, you’re in for a difficult life if you continue to think you are better than everyone else at your college. That’s how you come across. You’re young, so I’ll wager that in the next few years, you’ll come off your high horse and realize that if you want to have a fulfilling life, you have to learn to get along with people.
Being smart is great, but it’s pretty useless if you can’t find a way to be successful in life. And that doesn’t mean being wealthy. It’s about being fulfilled socially, culturally, and intellectually.
I know a kid who is highly intelligent. She took the college offer that gave her the most money. Then she got the highest GPA of the whole class and was offered another scholarship for that. She finds her classes too easy, so she decided to be a paid RA at college. She has found herself a paid internship for next summer already. Her goal is to make money from college. She’s a sophomore and doing some research on campus too. THAT is being smart. Maybe she had to bide her time for a year. Oh well, she did it without complaining. Be like that person. Make things happen for you.
Where do you want to go to college? Does that college have no requirements for humanities? Can you design your own program? Go THERE!
You can’t change the requirements at GMU. They have requirements from their accrediting organizations and they serve many more students than you. And maybe they’ve learned that the basic classes really are necessary before taking the 600 level ones. They’ve had a lot of students come through their doors, and you aren’t the first to claim you are bored. Guess what? A lot of life is boring. Someone has to go to the grocery store and make sure the electric bill is paid and feed the dog. Not every single thing you do is fascinating.
Many students pick colleges thinking the college will change to meet their dream. It doesn’t happen. Go to Liberty and you get religion requirements. Go to BC or Georgetown and you get religion requirements. Different requirements, but still requirements - and you can’t change them. You can argue you don’t need those courses but you’ll lose.
You don’t have to go to college at all, but then you aren’t going to get a job as a doctor or lawyer or professor. It’s unlikely you’ll get a job running a lab or working for the government as a degree is required. You may think it is all stupid and a waste of time, and when you have your own college or government, you can make the rules. Until then, you have to follow the rules others have set for their colleges and governments and labs.
@syntacticalbeing
“This is more or less a statement that education is merely meant to groom a population to be enslaved to the government, something which I am not at all surprised by. The reason why I haven’t touched other subjects is because I would actually learn even less than in my current ones. Too many students take those courses for an easy “good” grade, and that pressure shows in the curriculum. I already got my basic education in those subjects earlier; going further means wasting my time on the barely-high-school-level intro courses before I get to anything interesting.”
Society? Seriously? Rules are there for a reason. If you want to earn something, you need to pay a price for it. Otherwise you’ve earned nothing, and you will continue to earn nothing. Let’s take out society for a second. Let’s say you’re a farmer. In order to earn a crop, you have to plant seeds, water them, nourish the soil, weed it, and harvest it. If you don’t find that interesting, you could raise livestock instead. You still have to breed them, feed them, and care for them. The soil isn’t going to conform because you don’t like how slow the wheat is growing. The laws of biology aren’t going to change because your baby calf doesn’t have enough meat for a prime 10 oz steak. The one concept that these two scenarios have in common is conformity.
No one has yet commented on your assumption that you need really difficult courses to learn good study habits. If you can have an end goal – e.g. you want to be a physics professor, work back from that and figure out what you need to do. You can learn good study habits without tough courses! Set a goal of getting every single point available to you in those easy courses. It will not be as easy as you think.
A coach once told me he could pick out the kids that were going to succeed and go far. It wasn’t the ones with the most talent, it was the ones with the most drive. This applies pretty much everywhere, not just sports. You sound like you have a lot of talent, but I see little evidence of drive. Without focusing on a goal, and then doing what it takes to get there, you will not live up to your potential.
I’m actually kind of surprised that you are assuming such a passive position. If the course work is so simple and the internal restrictions so insurmountable why not take more a active approach. Just continue your classes and in your spare time take on one (or more) of the Millennium Problems. If you solve one or even come close, your school will have no option but to allow you to take any class you want. Working on something like P vs NP would surely take up some of your time and give you something interesting to discuss with your profs.