College Debt

Parents Forum
21

There are not as many community college stories here on CC. Our oldest had a wonderful experience at communityc college. She transferred to our state flagship for her junior and senior year. At graduation, her professors came over to introduce themselves and gush about our daughter. It was a highlight of graduation weekend.

None of them knew she was a transfer student from community college (it came up in casual conversation). Her diploma says University of Illinois, not “2 years at community college then only 2 years at University of Illinois”.

There are many paths! But HS kids might have a hard time seeing that, especially those with higher stats, feeling like they “deserve” better.

22

Both my kids are good students and could potentially have competed for Ivy’s. I was/am really hoping to steer them towards the institutions offering merit aid, identified by years of reading this site!

To make those schools more attractive, we settled on a figure ($20K for us) that we would give each D per year. If they chose a school that cost less than that per year, they could keep the rest. Older D chose a full tuition scholarship to Temple & will have about $12K left over when she graduates this Spring. She is thrilled with her choice & will have funds to help her transition to her next step.

Younger D will have choices ranging from full-ride to full pay. We told her if she chooses one of the full rides, we’ll split the difference with her, so she’ll end up with “only” $40K. My guess is that she’ll choose a full tuition like her sister did, so she can attend a somewhat higher ranked school & still have money left over. But we’ll see!

This has worked well for us - YMMV!

23

Everything depends so much on the school. At my kid’s school everyone making up to 65K gets free tuition, and there’s really good aid up to $150K (more for kids in multiple student households).

As a rule…the more selective the school, the better aid they’ll have (not always, but often)…so apply to reaches.

Also…kids can work. You don’t have to get your undergrad degree at 22. 24 or 26 is just fine. Pay as you go is a lot smarter than debt in most (but not all) cases.

24

I have two kids settling into their senior (college) years. Neither has any idea how the financial works and can’t really tell you which of the awards are from merit aid, need based aid, luck, etc. When they were in high school and just starting all this, the 16 year old looked at me and said ‘Can you do the money stuff?’ She was already exhausted with looking at schools and applying for scholarships, didn’t know how much money I made, how much I put into the 401k (or what a 401k was). Nor did she care

I just started contacting the FA office directly, the coach directly (athletic money), and filling in the FAFSA myself. I call them and say “Okay, I’m going to push ‘send’” and we’re all happy.

25

I really don’t see how you can cut a kid loose on this entire process in this day and age. Unless you have unlimited funds maybe. I cannot imagine telling my kid pick a financial safety and good luck. He doesn’t know the ins and outs of our finances at all.

My kid is a junior. So we’re just really getting started. My kid has his sights set on big city schools that we probably cannot afford. I like to remind myself that it is a HUGE gift to kids to have them complete a college education with minimal debt and to have their parents fund their retirement as much as possible so you all aren’t stressed about money during that phase of life. There are lots of good ways to be well educated. We will definitely be going after merit/talent money (my kid will likely be auditioning for music programs).

26

I can not believe how many seniors in high school tell me that they are applying to University of Colorado in Boulder, and we live in California. I just don’t understand what the parents are thinking. That was my DS first choice. I looked it up and saw the price tag and that it doesn’t offer WUE. I told him no from the get-go. Why get his hopes up and apply just to get accepted and then realize it is a no? I know Boulder is fantastic, etc. But, Colorado Springs has the same major and offer the WUE for California students. He understands. Sometimes, I wonder if I am the weird one, when I hear students telling me about Boulder. Then, I read on here and see that I am the sensible one. Interesting though, is that at the end of the year, we can see how many are accepted and actually GO to Boulder and there are just one or two. So, it seems that at the end of the day, the parents come to their senses.

27

I have a close relative whose son is a senior, and she seems to be letting him do this. Problem is (like OP), he has his sights set on a very expensive school (Ivy) where they probably won’t get FA, but for various reasons they can’t/won’t be able to pay for it. I got her to run the NPC when we were together recently, but am not sure what has happened since. This kid may very well get into the school he aspires to. But I don’t think his parents can pay for it. It is going to be an ugly spring at their house, I think.

28

I don’t think so. My kids were in a private high school in California and only 3 kids went to UCLA, another 3 to Cal. At least 6 went to CU-Boulder. I thought it was funny that more went to CU than Cal. Many families were affluent, but more than 50 kids went to California community colleges (most to Saddleback or other Orange County CCs). Many kids to private schools like TCU, ND, BC. CU is full of California kids.

29

Here is a cautionary tale of what can happen when costs are not considered or discussed up front:

Summer between 11th and 12th grade (“Money is not a factor in the decision.”)
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1789885-best-schools-for-math-comp-sci-with-undergrad-research.html

Early spring in 12th grade:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1866912-need-advice-on-college-choice-etc-p1.html

30

When we told our kids that finances were not an issue for college, we got a lot of pushback thanks to them being at the time devoted CC readers . Lol. " Were we SURE??" We were going to change our minds? What if I want grad school, can you pay for that? Yes No and Yes.

Finally we got " Oh so that’s why we live in a small house and have old cars and almost never go on vacation, unlike everyone else we know. " Yep.

31

The Kiplinger “best value” pages track average debt at graduation.
https://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T014-S001-kiplinger-s-best-values-in-private-colleges/index.php

For the 100 private “best value” universities they list, the average is about $29K.
This is a couple thousand dollars lower than the aggregate loan limit for subsidized and unsubsidized federal student loans. The average ranges from a low of $8,577 (Princeton) to a high of $40,721 (Baylor). These appear to be averages for all borrowers, not for all students
(i.e. the number you can find in each school’s Common Data Set, section H5(a), third column).

32

Echoing the others to say that your kid needs to pick a school that is affordable to him and to you. If you are not able to save now, how will you pay back big loans? Is there a way to cut your expenses or bring in more income? Don’t know your situation, but some stay at home parents go back to work to pay for college or go from part time to full time.

One of mine was trying to argue about taking out bigger loans to attend his number 1 choice school. I ran the numbers with him on how much he would have to spend each month to pay back such a loan. He then realized it made no sense and ended up loving his college and was able to move away because he didn’t have the burden of a large loan.

There are a lot of very good colleges that offer merit aid. They are not the super tip top schools, and may be in less desirable locations or a bit lower on the ranking scale, but will offer a great education. A good education does not stop at the top 20. The first choice school must be one the student wants to attend and is affordable. It can make parents feel bad, but the vast majority (especially beyond CC) cannot afford to be full pay at expensive colleges. Once the student is at college, the fact they are not at college X usually fades into the background quite a bit.

Good luck!

33

Happykid’s high school newspaper collected information from graduating seniors and included several pages in the “graduation edition” each year listing nearly everyone’s post HS plans. I ran the numbers myself on that data each year she was in HS, and the results were consistent: the single largest group headed straight to our community college. The state flagship was number two, and a combined list of other in-state publics was third. Nothing else came close. The HS counseling office kept stats on where students applied, and where they were admitted, but didn’t do a very good job on reporting where students planned to attend - in fact the CC didn’t make their list at all until I pointed the discrepancy out to them.

If you look around for information on where students actually do enroll for the fall, I expect you will see many families in your community making the same afordability choices that you are.

34

When I say pick a financial safety that means, pick something that you know is in the budget. While my kid may not completely understand the ins and outs of the family finances, she can do math. :wink: So when Mom and Dad say we will give you $5K a year and you can (against our advice) borrow your Fed loan of $5,500 then your full budget is $10,500. Make sure you have a school on your list that you know you can get into as well as afford. My DD did not do this.

We did not dictate where she could apply, she did all the decision making and apps on her own, she did not want our help or input. Her attitude was “everyone” has loans. What she failed to comprehend is that those loans are co-signed and most often by a parent or they are parent loans - we refused to do either and in the end, she had two choices: A gap year with reassessment or the local CC. She chose the gap year, reassessed and has now been accepted to the honors college of her financial safety.

35

Do you know your EFC?
If not, first, calculate it, second, see if you can afford it.
Most parents can’t.
Then, look up “NPC + your state flagship(s)”, “NPC+ dream school”, “NPC + Rank 50-60 LAC”, “NPC+ top 10 regional university”. Get a sense of the range in terms of costs. What’s affordable? Do they offer merit scholarships? What range?
Then, tell your kid, perhaps with a document helping him visualize .“We can afford 30K a year out of pocket. Your total budget is that, your 5.5K loan, and whatever you can save from your job, plus any merit scholarship the university gives you.” Encourage him to run as may NPCs as he wishes, and save all results that are within budget.

Note that at HYP there may be some financial aid even for families in the 200-300K range.

You cannot finance college solely through loans. (You may qualify for the first year, but then you’re maxed out and your child has to drop out, not to mention the effects on your other children).
Your child can borrow $5,500 and then has to use your savings, his work earnings/savings, whatever you can spare from your income. Most financial aid comes from the colleges themselves so you have to target the right colleges. Start reading thei website, there’s lots and lots of information.

The primary responsibility for funding your child’s college rests on you.
Even if you haven’t started saving, start now, this month.
Think of how much you’ll need to save each month for college at your public university full pay ($1,000? $4,000?), find everything that can be cut from your budget, and set that aside in a 529 or such.
See if grandparents could contribute something each month (even $25 or $30 a month from grandparents adds to the 529).Even if you all start this November only, it’s much better than nothing.
(Just in case you haven’t gone over this already) Easier cost cutting measures include not changing cars (and in fact some colleges will factor that in - ie., if you drive an older car, it can count in your favor on the CSS profile) and fixing food from scratch at home (cooking is fun, actually). Require your HS sophomore and junior to get a job.
Get used to what it means in terms of lifestyle, so that you can be ready when college comes - it’s a double win, because at that point you’re already used to it and you’ve accumulated some savings.

If you haven’t saved anything at all, your eldest may have to take a gap year, working or volunteering with CityYear. (Note that CityYear is highly selective, but does bring a scholarship at the end)
What year in school are all 3 kids?
What’s your eldest’s GPA and test scores?

36

@happymomof1

Thank you for mentioning the data from your D’s HS. Important point!

Our kid’s college prep HS loves to publish that long list of acceptances. It IS impressive, but it diverts our thinking away from the actual matriculations.

Re: the single largest group going to community college & that fact is obscured. It’s a shame. It contributes to the negative impression of community colleges as consolation prize or last resort.

37

^To be fair, the situation is quite different wrt community colleges in California than in other states, where funding, peers, course offerings, and transferability of courses can be highly variable.

38

@MYOS1634

Good point. I just know our area’s community colleges.

39

Community college is also where the majority of students at my D’s high schools start out. And we live in an upper middle class town. Only a small percentage go to expensive private schools. The rest go to one of the state flagships or other state schools. Don’t believe everything you hear or see on TV about college. Avoid college debt at all costs.

40

^I would qualify that a bit, though: Stafford loans (5.5K for freshman year) are ok. The loans show how much a college graduate can reasonably pay back over 10 years and are a good investment in my opinion.
HOWEVER, private loans and Parent PLUS loans are a terrible, terrible idea that penalize all other children, not to mention that if you don’t qualify after two years (since it all adds up and you must requalify each year) your child has to drop out and is now drowning in debt and has no degree - a situation that’s, unfortunately, not rare.