Thank you everyone for taking time to share your genuine inputs. I understand that we need a lot more thinking to do and find out answers to some crucial questions during our college visits.
If cost is not a factor in this, how would you rank these 4 choices? Please exclude UCs, Pitzer and SCU since those choices were made after visits and discussions with the current students. Unless the waitlist opens up, no UCs in the picture. Thanks again.
If we are voting…here is my vote.
CWRU.
UMD-CP
UW
Drexel…for a variety of reasons. I just think a 17 year old can’t possibly understand what it takes to be a doctor. My opinion. Plus…the costs.
same order for me with 1 and 2 relatively close, then a dropoff to 3 and 4.
Agree…3 and 4 would be lower than instate public universities if I were making a list
Almost the same order too, with a big drop off between 1 and 2 since OPs child is not in ILS, with UW 4 and Drexel 3 because Ops DD could at least study what she wants, which is not guaranteed at Uw (prescience admit).
There are some small LAC’s that fly under the radar and do well with med school applications. Not suggesting W&J but maybe schools like it.
Best not to wait until the NACAC list comes out, as the vast majority of the schools that will be on that list are taking apps right now, and they will generally have more FA $ today than in one month, 6 weeks, and later.
The best way to find schools that are still taking apps is to search on the common app. Around 700 of the 1,084 common app schools are still taking apps as of today. Some non-common app schools are still taking apps as well, including some CSUs.
I don’t like BA/MD programs for a number of reasons.
I think few 17 year old have the life experience or maturity to choose medicine for the right reasons.
I also almost feel like these programs are predatory–they’re designed to attract academically strong students who would otherwise never consider the relatively weaker/lesser known undergrad with the lure of a med school admission. It’s also binding a 17 year old to taking on an unimaginable amount of debt to attend the program and med school. A 17 year old simply cannot understand how their life and future will be circumscribed by $500,000 (or more) in loan debt. Sure a doctor makes a more than comfortable income, but even a doctor will have difficulty paying off that kind of debt. Especially if she ends up in one of the primary care fields.
FYI. CHOP is operated by the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. CHOP isn’t going to welcome Drexel premeds because Penn is sending its own premeds there.
And full disclosure, one of my grad degrees is from Drexel. Drexel is fine school for many things, but it’s med school has some issues right now.
Does this impact matching into a residency as well?
Residency happens after medical school has been completed. So…after 7-8 years even in a BS/MD program. Plus at that point, the student will have done a lot of required rotations and likely elective ones as well. So age would be about 24-25 or older.
Is that what you are asking about?
The poster mentioned those programs seem predatory and locks the student into weaker schools. So I was curious if being locked into a particular school also impacts the student when it comes time for matching into a residency?
Residency matches are based on…Step 1 passing, Step 2 scores, scores on all tests via rotations, letters of reference, audition rotations, etc.
And remember, the algorithm used in the match also considers how the residency programs rank you.
@WayOutWestMom can give more details.
The way the Match works is the student develops their portfolio for apply to a particular specialty with:
They then choose a list of residency programs to send their application to. The student is allowed to “signal” programs of their interest by either marking them as “gold” choices (#1) or “silver” choices (strong interest but not #1). The number of signals a student is allowed varies by specialty but the number of signal is quite limited–less than 7 except for OB/GYN (18) and ortho (30). The student then pays ERAS which send out the application.
On the residency program directors end, they can use the ERAS program to set filters on which applications they will download. They might set a a filter for no IMGs, or for minimum Step 2 score, or for a applicant who has strongly signaled a geographic preference for their area, There are dozens of options they can choose to filter by. The PD and APD then download and cursorily review apps, rank them for further review then decide which applicants to offer interviews. Although interviews were online during covid, they are returning to more in-person lately because many residency programs are quite small (sometimes only 1-4 students/year) and they want a good personality fit with the people in the program. (Also because the applicants want a chance to talk to current residents away from the ears of the PD/APD/PC to hear the nitty gritty about the program. In-person also allows applicants to view the facilities and the surrounding area.)
Once all the interviews have been finished, both the applicants and the programs create a rank list. On the applicant side they will rank every program they would want to match at. They may not ask every program they interviewed with because some gave off ‘bad vibes’ during the interview or they didn’t like some facet of the program. NRMP has a chart that shows how many programs an applicants in a particular specialty needs to rank to have 85% or better chance of ranking.
The programs weigh interview performance plus others factor both tangible (like LORs and board scores) and intangible (like the reputation of the med school for producing well-prepared students with good clinical skills and a “gut feeling” they got from the student during the interview.) Sometimes unofficial back channel phone calls are made between colleagues to ask questions about certain applicants or to recommend or disrecommend applicants to programs.
Both the applicant’s rank list the program’s rank list are blinded–they aren’t allowed to discuss (or have their proxies discuss) how they ranked an individual or program. Communication post interview is severely restricted with serious penalties for breaking them.
Then a computer algorithm merges the lists and attempts to match both parties with their highest ranked choices.
See video: How It Works | NRMP
Once an applicant has received a Match, they are legally bound to attend that program for residency. Take it or leave medicine.
Applicants who don’t match have 3 days to scramble into any unfilled position they can find. These will largely be in family or internal medicine in small town/rural locations in the midwest or south or preliminary general surgery (1 year program with no renewal so not a full residency) or go unmatched. Unmatched students really have very limited options. They can’t work as doctors without a residency.
Long answer-- see above
Short answer–yes. It can. Program reputation isn’t the most important factor but it is considered by residency programs when selecting applicants to interview and rank. It especially impacts applicants who are hoping to match into academic medicine and highly competitive specialties.
Also lower ranked/weaker medical schools offer fewer opportunities for specialty specific research and in-house rotations in competitive specialties since they don’t host their own residency programs in those specialties.
ETA: Every 2 years the NRMP surveys program directors in all specialties to see what they value in residency applicants. The results are here.
Back to the OP. My ranking stands!
If I understand correctly ^, it sounds like Drexel’s med program&its problems would actually impact choices for the OP.
The issue is that often the student would not have chosen the undergraduate school if it did not have the BA/BS → MD/DO program. In that case, if the student attends, but later chooses not to complete the medical school path (for any reason, including financial) or gets weeded out by the GPA and/or MCAT minimum requirement, then the student will have chosen a less desirable undergraduate school than what they would otherwise have chosen.
For @mochi1 , would the student consider Drexel without the express lane to medical school?
Those who attend Drexel, known as a fine school, might disagree with that.
The BSMD seems no more predatory than ED for example. If they’re clear up front with the qualifier, I don’t see it predatory at all.
You don’t think it’s predatory to bind a 17 year old to an 8 year commitment that will put them a half million dollars in debt?
I do.