College graduation rate calculator

[momofthreeboys]

<p>

Having a Creativity in the Top10% verses in the Lowest10% actually results in an 4% lower graduation rate.

</p>

<p>Well that makes some sense, truly creative people often operate outside “the system.”</p>

<p>

For some people, transfering is a step up, not a negative.

Agree.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@JHS

It closes with a discussion of how HBCUs have a meaningfully better four-year graduation rate than one would expect given their student bodies (although the advantage over public universities evens out in the six-year graduation rate).

</p>

<p>Some HBCUs are public. Do you mean “advantage over other public universities”, or are you referring just to the private HBCUs?</p>

<p>

@JHS

I also note that the authors of the study emphasize that their calculator works best for large populations, not individuals. Individual experiences vary. If you conclude, on the basis of 4 factors or 40 factors, that Individual A has a 40% chance – i.e., less than likely – of graduating from college in 6 years, obviously that doesn’t mean that Individual A will not graduate from college. Some people like him will graduate in 4 years with flying colors, others will limp through and ultimately succeed, and still others will fail definitively. In the absence of better concrete alternatives, I have a hard time telling Individual A to forget about college just because it’s an uphill battle, since people like him DO succeed. Why shouldn’t he want to be one of the winners?

</p>

<p>Note that studies like that being discussed here may not fully account for characteristics that are visible to those who know Individual A, but are not easily captured or quantified directly in studies. For example, the level of student’s motivation may be a big factor. If the student was a slacker through 11th grade, but becomes motivated in 12th grade, that is a better sign than if s/he shows no signs of becoming motivated.</p>

<p>Indeed, I have known people who only became motivated years after high school graduation and were successful in college then; if they had gone to college right after high school graduation, they would likely have not made significant progress.</p>

<p>More direct knowledge of the student’s financial resources can also allow one to make a better assessment of the risk of failing to complete due to running out of money.</p>

[JHS]

<p>No idea. The reference comparison was public universities. Maybe they separated out public HBCUs (which would make some sense). Maybe they were in both sets of data (public HBCUs would not affect the all-public-universities data much). Maybe it was just private HBCUs.</p>

[argbargy]

<p>

Well that makes some sense, truly creative people often operate outside “the system.”

</p>

<p>It not just “truly creative”. As creativity increases the graduation rate decreases. </p>

<p>Even between “Below Average” and “Lowest 10%” the advantage is to the less creative.</p>

[BCEagle91]

<p>Anyone have a chart of household income to graduation rate? That would be fun to look at.</p>

<p>I found a chart and the results were as expected. I also found this article:</p>

<p><a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/21/news/economy/income_college/index.htm[/url]”>http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/21/news/economy/income_college/index.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“In the earlier group, 36% of the upper-income children graduated college and 5% of the poor did.”</p>

<p>I did get my degree but it too about 12 years to finish. I guess that I’d be considered a failure in these studies.</p>

[kayf]

<p>Maybe the truly creative are able to find jobs that do not require a degree, so it is less painfull to drop out.</p>

[Beliavsky]

<p>The higher graduation rates at HBCUs are offset by a “hefty wage penalty”:</p>

<p>[The</a> Declining Payoff From Black Colleges - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/the-declining-payoff-from-black-colleges/]The”>The Declining Payoff From Black Colleges - The New York Times)</p>

<p>

The study found that historically black colleges and universities — often known as H.B.C.U.’s — lifted the pay of their graduates in the 1970s relative to their attending other colleges, all else equal, but that these colleges now bring a hefty wage penalty, on average, for their graduates. One possible reason is that traditionally white institutions began doing a better job of educating their black students in recent years, according to the paper.

</p>

<p>The study is [The</a> Causes and Consequences of Attending Historically Black Colleges and Universities by Roland Fryer, Michael Greenstone :: SSRN](<a href=“http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=979336]The”>http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=979336) .</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>Re: [Income</a> gap continues to affect college graduation rates - Nov. 21, 2011](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/21/news/economy/income_college/index.htm]Income”>Income gap continues to affect college graduation rates - Nov. 21, 2011)</p>

<p>Here is the actual paper:</p>

<p><a href=“U-M Web Hosting”>U-M Web Hosting;

<p>The figures of interest are in the back. Figure 3 refers to college graduation rates by family income quartiles for the 1961-1964 birth cohorts and 1979-1982 birth cohorts. Figure 2 refers to college entry rates.</p>

<p>For the 1961-1964 birth cohort, college entry and graduation percentages by family income quartile were:</p>

<p>19/5, 32/14, 38/17, 58/36</p>

<p>For the 1979-1982 birth cohort, the percentages were:</p>

<p>29/9, 47/21, 60/32, 80/54</p>

<p>Note that if you divide the college graduation percentage by the college entry percentage, the graduation percentage for those who entered college were for the 1961-1964 cohort:</p>

<p>26, 44, 45, 62</p>

<p>For the 1979-1982 birth cohort:</p>

<p>31, 44, 53, 68</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>Re: #47 and HBCUs versus other schools</p>

<p>I wonder if anyone studied and compared the post graduation outcomes of engineering graduates from Florida State University and Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>

It not just “truly creative”. As creativity increases the graduation rate decreases.</p>

<p>Even between “Below Average” and “Lowest 10%” the advantage is to the less creative.

</p>

<p>This doesn’t surprise me. My oldest is a true creative and will be working in a creative field at graduation. BUT… she is already working in this field and could have started a full time career after her first year in college. If both my husband and I didn’t have graduate degrees, I don’t think she would have thought of finishing. Just, in our family, a BA/BS is the minimum expectation from birth.</p>

<p>It’s ingrained. I don’t even think she ever thought about it., which also supports one of the stats in the study.</p>

<p>Some of this study does leave out students like BC who put himself through, since there’s an expiration date on what they see as a legitimate grad rate. However, when one is solely responsible for financing the education? I suppose slow and steady is an excellent course.</p>

[bluebayou]

<p>IMO, a family’s wealth has the largest correlation to grad rate.</p>

[argbargy]

<p>

Just, in our family, a BA/BS is the minimum expectation from birth.

</p>

<p>I am bringing out a line of crib toys called Plus One Million which are guaranteed to decrease your baby’s creativity and therefor boost their graduation rate. Moms will flock to them, all I need is a favorable Goop review. </p>

<p>Gonna get paid!</p>

[BCEagle91]

<p>The daughter of a friend of mine went to a creative school in NYC and left after a year to work full-time in her area. She makes six-figures and gets to travel moderately and was asked by her school to teach a course in her area of expertise. I don’t know if she will bother to finish her degree.</p>

<p>His other daughter, a real high-school slacker, went to community college for two semesters and then signed up with some kind of certificate program at a local hospital and they hired her after she finished it and is making pretty good money now.</p>

<p>Two kids without degrees doing pretty well.</p>

[momofthreeboys]

<p>

It’s ingrained.

</p>

<p>I think that’s a big part of it. My H and I are college educated (me w/more than BA), my parents AND my husband’s parents were 1940s era college graduates (my parents w/more than BA) AND I have college education at my grandparent level (my kids’ great grandparents which I don’t would be the 10s maybe?) which is not usual. They don’t really think about not going and they don’t think about not finishing regardless of where the rest of their life takes them. My oldest could have “made his way” in the field he currently likes, probably without his BA, but it adds to the richness of who he is right now at the ripe old age of 24 and may contribute to his trajectory over his lifetime. For number 2 it was a way to study something that he is passionate about (water resources) that he really couldn’t “study” in high school. It’s entirely possible he could enter a career field without the degree, but he would be a different person than he will be next December when he graduates.</p>

[kypdurron]

<p>Its an interesting calculator</p>

[marshallmeyer12]

<p>That depends on the school. Any school with a grad rate above 85% is high (usually top liberal arts schools) and anything lower than 60% is low (low tier universities.)</p>

<p>There are schools with 93% graduation rates and schools with 7% graduation rates. If a white male with a 2100 goes to both schools, he may have more difficulty graduating from one.</p>

<p>Also, some programs are 5 year (Northeastern University.)</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>Re: #56</p>

<p>Actually, the whole point of this thread is that graduation rates depend a lot more on the student than the school.</p>

<p>Also, Northeastern University’s typical five year plan includes four academic years’ worth of course work, interspersed with co-op jobs. It is an example of how counting by calendar year (as opposed by number of semesters or quarters in school) may not produce the desired data.</p>

[emberjed]

<p>I’m not sure why, but the use of the term “College Experienced” to refer to people who aren’t first-generation-to-college REALLY bugs me. What your parents have done academically, for the most part, doesn’t get you much of anywhere, and it definitely doesn’t “season” you to the college experience.</p>

[emberjed]

<p>Huh. Writing ability, math ability, and computer skills all negatively correlate with likelihood of graduating. I’m guessing that people with the first two are more likely to get a job that allows them to leave early, and people with the last are more likely to slack off.</p>

<p>I’m surprised that working for pay doesn’t have a greater correlation with dropping out.</p>

<p>God, this part scares me: 4-year Engineering students, a group I’m in, are by far the most likely to drop out.</p>

[egelloc80]

<p>So is there any data that you guys find surprising? </p>

<p>-White and Asians are more likely to graduate college
-People with better HS grades tend to do better in college
-Standardized tests have some ability to predict a students success in college
-First generation students tend to take more than 4 years to graduate than college experienced
-Private Universities have higher graduation rates than Public ones</p>

<p>So this article basically to some extent confirmed the common beliefs</p>