Most M Arch’s will probably want to see at calculus and physics, is that correct? So something to think about when planning out gen eds as well. (Seems calculus is already on the table for a potential math major, anyway.)
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If you don’t already have Calc & Physics it will probably need to be part of the curriculum of the Master program.
I probably should not have mentioned potential majors, especially the architecture because it has caused so much confusion! She is very much undecided.
She will take physics in her senior year, so if she hates it, this will help rule out whether architecture is a good fit!
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Just want to say that, if you haven’t visited, you might want to reconsider William & Mary. I have heard the “ quirky” term used about the school but I honestly don’t know where that is coming from. Sure, there is a range of student personalities, and I do think it’s a pretty happy, accepting place, but not more so than many of the schools suggested here. I find it outwardly fairly mainstream, in fact, though there are lots of interesting and engaged students. My D is a graduating senior, and I don’t think that she (nor most of her friends, from what I can see) would be described as quirky, nor would I get that feeling walking around campus. Not being reactive here, just a little puzzled about the label that has somehow stuck to the school. I’d say it’s a pretty classic school where smart, competent mainstream and creative types can be happy. It doesn’t have a rah-rah big-sports atmosphere, but most LACs mentioned here don’t either. My D originally thought she wanted to go to a LAC and…(just to give you an idea of her tastes) her favorites of the ones she visited were Lafayette (her #2), Franklin & Marshall, Dickinson and Richmond. For some reason she just felt “meh” about Denison (I wasn’t there so I’m not sure why). We didn’t get to visit many schools because the pandemic got in the way. She liked all of the above just fine…Lafayette was, by far, the top-runner for awhile in her mind, but after an hour walking around W&M she just “knew” and has never looked back or regretted her decision.
I also have a friend whose very smart and accomplished daughter (math) is loving St. Olaf. Had the school not been so far away from us during the pandemic I would have taken my D there to visit.
No guarantees about admissions but I think your D’s stats are fine! My
D’s were very similar to yours, but the opposite math/verbal SAT split.
Now, if she decides she wants a school with architecture, then that’s a whole ‘nother thing…but then most of your list would have to be reconsidered.
Feel free to message me if you have any questions. My D is not a STEM kid though!
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I think the point is though - if someone has a potential interest, it’s good to go to a school that has it.
If someone is interested in engineering, they should go to a school that offers it, even if the ultimately don’t do it. Because if that small possibility becomes a reality then you have issue if your school doesn’t have it.
If someone truly wants an LAC, that’s fine. But one needs to realize that while one can pursue a path, it might take years of more tuition and less income.
So for an undecided, an LAC could be better. More time to declare. But a larger school, for many, can be better - more options to pivot.
Everyone is different.
To me, major trumps school - but that’s if someone truly knows or thinks a specific major might be it.
You have LACs but also UMASS and all in between. Her loves seem suburban - so if you go to gw, Pitt or UMn and she doesn’t like - too urban with gw a whole other level of urban or a Hobart as too rural - that’s how you start narrowing down.
So it’s great if you can ensure visits to various types of locales.
Btw it’s a myth that only at LACs you can declare late or change a major late or that LACs have good advising and large schools don’t. That’s all school (and student) dependent. Kids that seek it out will do better in most cases no matter the where. Many on here have complained about both LAC and big school advising and many have sung the praises of both.
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Good points. Maybe we lean away from LACs (other than investigating the ones mentioned for being intros for architecture (Lehigh, Hobart & William Smith, Barnard).
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I’ve seen one case reported where the student had to complete it before starting the program - so I guess it varies by school. (The particular instance I’m thinking of is where the student got credit at undergrad for AP calc but the grad school didn’t accept that and wanted a college course. I don’t remember the school, or whether I read about it here or elsewhere, but those particulars stuck with me.)
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I’ll just add - then you’ll have some schools with majors that may interest that you don’t realize exist.
I pulled this major from my daughter’s school - others - not a ton - have it too. But many schools have unique programs, sometimes that you don’t even find til you are there. So at your schools she likes, she might want to go through major lists - is this unique or does it inspire me ? Or they have so few majors I won’t find anything ?
That could impact lists too. And then some schools have special programs - Honors and beyond. My daughter will graduate (hopefully) in 3 weeks at Charleston, she’s not just in Honors but is a Charleston Fellow. Every semester, they send me a check - so her scholarship is more than tuition. It’s few kids but maybe yours. Her bff turned down rice, Vandy and Penn. so you get top kids. She has 3 advisors - one she deems not helpful, the other two great - for more than just academics. Now we did not have that when she enrolled - she was an alternate so it was a surprise that came post May 1 but schools have programs like these - that may bring more focus to you no matter the campus.
Other schools have similar programs - but they’re hidden so you have to look deeper.
Not pushing the school but maybe a way to look better or ask deeper questions on your visits. What types of sub honors communities etc. and what unique sub majors that meet my interest do they have. W&M is off your list but their soc major has many tracks, as an example. So I bet other schools have unique curriculums too - but you have to dig a bit.
Good luck
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Completely understand that your student is undecided - not unlike many students in their Junior year. A LAC will make a cross-section of courses available to them and help give them direction. But in some cases, depending on that direction, programs may have pre-requisites that then put them on course for a 5 (or more) year completion. Architecture is at the extreme end of that spectrum.
I would not rule out Architecture just because Physics wasn’t great. IME Architecture as a field is not what many think it is. It’s much more about design than it is about engineering. To give some insight into the curriculum:
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And (maybe it was you mentioned this to me originally) different schools put emphasis on different aspects of the degree so while all have the same basic elements, some will be more design heavy, some more focused on the social studies/historical etc context, some more structural focused (I think UIUC falls into the latter) so there is also scope to move towards what interests a particular student more.
But it may be an idea to have the student do a summer school as someone mentioned earlier to test interest. From what we saw when we looked at these, they range in time commitment from one week to around 5 weeks. If it’s just to test the waters I probably would not bother with the more competitive or longer ones but do maybe a one or two week one.
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100% this - to expose and validate or eliminate. It wouldn’t just validate or eliminate one major but likely many adjacent.
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I’d add two schools to your list. The first is Union College, a small liberal arts college in Schenectady. Just visited there and a student from the Boston area told me that the thing he liked best about it is the college’s community. Beautiful campus even on the grey days. And it offers merit.
The second is the University of Rochester, a small research university. It’s modified open curriculum lends itself to the need that an undecided student has to explore different interests. They also offer merit.
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I know an architect who went to Dickinson, I wouldn’t rule out liberal arts schools unless she is 100 percent wanting an undergrad architecture school- I think you can get there with a math or art related major. Would require a graduate program of course. I like your list and would add the Ohio liberal arts schools (Kenyon, Denison) and more of the pa schools- Gettysburg, Franklin and Marshall. I like those schools a lot and most of them offer merit which in my mind puts them ahead of the new England lacs which mostly don’t. I think the education and student bodies are similar, people are just biased against Ohio and Pennsylvania so they have to discount tuition for that.
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I think given OPs initial lives if they can zero in on - I don’t like rural or I do - it would help as the list will get unwieldy. Kenyon has little near and Denison a small town. Yes they are within range of Columbus but not daily where an F&M is in Lancaster proper.
So I’d determine environment desired b4 going all in.
Parameters will help define a proper list.
Has budget come up yet ? Is there a desired price point - and if so do you have need to get there etc ?
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Thank you. Tulane seems far away for us, but I have seen it mentioned as a possible fit for her, especially if she chose ED.
If your daughter does decide to apply to Tulane, make it EA if she doesn’t want to do ED - they fill a huge amount of their class in the early round. I think our college counselor said something like 70% of the class is chosen between ED and EA.
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We have saved well for college so the budget isn’t a factor, thankfully. Thanks for asking, good question!
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I wasn’t suggesting Tulane per se. I was posting that simply as an example of the core curriculum of an architecture program.
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To comment further on the paths to a career in architecture:
•Bachelor OF Architecture
From what you’ve said it doesn’t sound as if your daughter is ready to commit to a BArch.
•Bachelor of Arts or Science IN Architecture + a Master of Architecture at the same or different institution
BA/BS programs in architecture, architectural studies, environmental design vary considerably in focus, structure and commitment. Many can lead directly to an MArch the university’s own school of architecture. Others are the foundation for an MArch at another university. Some curriculums start at Day 1, some have secondary acceptances later in the process. Some require portfolios, some don’t. Some guarantee admission to their own MArch, some don’t.
UVA, Northeastern and UMich are excellent examples.
•Bachelor of Arts in anything else + an MArch at the same or different institution. MArch programs admit from a wide range of undergraduate and life experiences: most (but not all) require some college level physics and calculus plus some studio art and art history. The portfolio is critical.
My son did his undergraduate degree at Williams, worked in architecture for a couple of years, then got his MArch at Cornell. Williams has a superb art history program with ample options in architectural art history and art studio architecture courses, though they don’t offer a specific architecture major.
About 40% of Williams students double major often in disparate fields like math and art. Graduate school advising is excellent. Though it’s super selective your daughter seems to fit the profile of a high level of commitment to academics, arts and sports or outdoorsy activities.
I would also look at Middlebury for an undergraduate architecture concentration. My son also liked Wesleyan, Hamilton, Skidmore and Kenyon for overall academics and arts focus.
I’m not an architect but over the years I’ve observed the paths of my son and many of his classmates and colleagues. And I can say with conviction that all three paths can lead to a successful career as an architect. The time, cost and experience involved are highly variable.
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