College Presidents seek debate on legal drinking age

[garland]

<p>Mini, I asked these questions earlier, but I think they got lost in the thread. I know these are areas you are well-versed in, but I haven’t seen you addrress them:</p>

<p>

Mini–I notice you say “Northern European.” Is southern Europe different? Also, you note the rates of binge drinking and self-consequences, though not drunk driving. Are the drunk driving rates and accidents caused by that also higher in Europe? Thanks in advance.

</p>

<p>I probably missed it elsewhere, so I’m wondering why the distinction of *Northern *European, which is why I asked.</p>

<p>Also, as much as I feel bad for those who end up with alcohol-related disease, from a societal standpoint my primary interest is what effect there is on drunk driving and accident rates, which is why I am wondering if they are worse in Europe. </p>

<p>If not, that’d be interesting to know.</p>

[barrons]

<p>No Mini, you have not. All your studies deal with the general population and not the college student cohort which I believe is unique. In fact I have posted evidence of data to the contrary focusing just on college students.</p>

[pmrlcomm]

<p>When I turned 18 it was still legal to drink. We still drank like fish at our fraternity parties. I don’t know that changing it back will stop that. I don’t have a problem with them drinking legally at 18 though. They are already drinking and at least the drinking will be out in the open. If anyone thinks lowering the age will cause more drinking they are mistaken.</p>

[curmudgeon]

<p>

Basically, the Amnesty Policy at my school means that:
If a student (no matter what his age) is in any kind of danger, his friends may call the campus police or health services for assistance. They will take him to the hospital and care for him, no questions asked. There is a guarantee that no one will get in trouble for drinking. The most important thing is that the students get proper care and are safe…
What are your thoughts on policies like this one?

I like them. </p>

<p>hgirl, I live in a beyond rural community where “pasture parties” are known to get waaaay out of hand among the high school set. I arranged my own amnesty program for my D with a trusted local mechanic/tow truck operator. I pre-paid him to go get my kid whenever she called, no matter the time (we had his cell and his towing operation was 24hr), no matter the circumstances and forbade him from telling me the “details”. Then I made the policy abundantly clear to my D, setting out that she was to use the “safe card” I gave her at any time she was in a “situation”. </p>

<p>She never used the card but I worried a lot less.</p>

[interesteddad]

<p>

mini, my data may be out of date, but my understanding is that the binge drinking rates at the big 10 universities are a lot higher than those at the colleges you named in post 108.

</p>

<p>Could be. Univ of Wisconsin - Madison’s binge drinking rate has been consistently above 60%, which is as high as it gets. (It’s also 90+% white).</p>

<p>Depending on the survey, Williams and Dartmouth have been in the high forties to low-mid fifties – well above the national average. Both schools have high percentages of non-white students, which will bring the overall rate down.</p>

[interesteddad]

<p>

No Mini, you have not. All your studies deal with the general population and not the college student cohort which I believe is unique. In fact I have posted evidence of data to the contrary focusing just on college students.

</p>

<p>mini pointed out a difficulty in comparing US to non-US college drinking rates. In the United States, the binge drinking rates are much higher at residential colleges and universities than at non-residential schools. There are, for all intents and purposes, no residential colleges in Europe.</p>

[collegemom16]

<p>What about Canada?</p>

[arcadia]

<p>

Yet Choose Responsibility, far from being neutral, advocates for lowering the drinking age.

</p>

<p>Yes, Choose Responsibility does advocate for lowering the drinking age, but it also proposes a multi-faceted approach that combines education, certification, and provisional licensing for 18-20 year-old high school graduates who choose to consume alcohol.</p>

<p>[Our</a> Proposal - Choose Responsibility](<a href=“http://www.chooseresponsibility.org/proposal/]Our”>http://www.chooseresponsibility.org/proposal/)</p>

<p>Click on the links on the left hand side to see the different facets of the approach.</p>

[barrons]

<p>College drinking and later life</p>

<p><a href=“http://pace.uhs.wisc.edu/docs/jach_brower.pdf[/url]”>http://pace.uhs.wisc.edu/docs/jach_brower.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[hgirl11]

<p>curmudgeon, thats funny that you say that. my parents had sort of the same thing for my sister and i when we were in high school. it was good knowing that we could be trusted and that our parents were just concerned with our safety. and now that we’re both in college, our parents dont mind if we go out drinking, they just want to know where we’re gonna be and that we wont be driving.
also, my parents know that i have a fake id and they dont really encourage it but they know that im going to drink if i want to so they just do what they can to make sure im safe and responsible.</p>

[LakeWashington]

<p>It’s slightly off-topic, but engaging in binge drinking is no problem for college students who either live near the border or travel there on school breaks. You’ve all seen the photos of bars in Mexico full of American underage drinkers in various stages of sobriety. Also, isn’t the Canadian minimum age also below that of the U.S.? And if the college doesn’t own its frat or sorority houses, the administration cannot prohibit binge drinking by 21 year-old students.</p>

[arcadia]

<p>Again, mini–I’d love to hear about programs that other college presidents have initiated that have have had profound impacts on underage drinking on their campuses.</p>

[BPKO43]

<p>I think people should try looking at it a different way. While it is certainly arguable that the 21 drinking age has saved lives(as MADD would suggest), the fact still remains that this 21 drinking age law is a case of the government targeting a group of legal adults and enforcing legislation upon them based on factors which said group has no control of. While this is certainly not to as negative an extent as racial discrimination was, it shows some striking parallels at its base. I think this is the heart of the issue legally, and debate over whether changing from 21 to 18 would reduce binge drinking, while interesting, is beating around the bush.</p>

[orchid_2010]

<p>If you are a legal adult, you should have all the same rights and privileges as other legal adults. An 18 year old will be tried for a crime as an adult, can get married as an adult, can serve in the military and die for their country, can undergo medical and cosmetic procedures without permission from anyone else, can bungee jump off a cliff, get tattoed, vote for public officials, sign a legal contract, etc.</p>

<p>I can see no justification to deny the specific right of having a drink just because someone is under 21.</p>

[Bay]

<p>Its actually surprising that the 18-20 year-olds have not brought a Civil-rights, age-discrimination, Equal Protection action against the restrictions.</p>

[tsdad]

<p>

August 19, 2008
Drinking-Age Campaign Binges on Big Names, Big Media</p>

<p>A campaign to lower the legal drinking age to 18 has been joined by more than 100 college chiefs, including those of many well-known institutions. Dubbed the Amethyst Initiative, the effort is also generating a blitz of news-media coverage today.</p>

<p>John M. McCardell Jr., president emeritus of Middlebury College, is behind the campaign. As The Chronicle reported last year, Mr. McCardell founded Choose Responsibility, a nonprofit group that seeks to curb binge drinking by giving “drinking licenses” to 18- to 20-year-olds who have been educated about the downsides of alcohol.</p>

<p>The campaign began heating up in June, when Mr. McCardell spoke at a meeting of the Annapolis Group of liberal-arts colleges. Now presidents of major institutions such as the Johns Hopkins University, the University of Maryland at College Park, and Ohio State University have signed a statement that seeks to “rethink the drinking age.” But not all college presidents are fans of the campaign, which also has a powerful opponent in Mothers Against Drunk Driving. The advocacy group says signatories “shirk responsibility to protect students from dangers of underage drinking.”</p>

<p>For those wondering about the initiative’s name, the ancient Greeks apparently believed that the purple gemstone amethyst warded off drunkenness and promoted moderation, according to the group’s Web site. —Paul Fain

</p>

<p>Our university, and city, are devoting a significant amount of resources to dealing with drinking by students. Based on my observations here, and in this state, lowering the drinking age would be a very bad idea.</p>

[tsdad]

<p>Bay:</p>

<p>Age is not one of those categories, like race, whose use is inherently suspect. We have all kinds of legal distinctions in our society based on age.</p>

<p>Orchid:</p>

<p>And the same is true of 35 year olds and 60 year olds but they may have problems entering into careers as law enforcement officers or airline pilots. As I said, we have all kind of laws, procedures, and regulations which limit, or deny access, based on age. Drinking is only one of them.</p>

[Bay]

<p>

We have all kinds of legal distinctions in our society based on age.

</p>

<p>With respect to adults, the only one I can think of that may have passed judicial muster (altho I honestly can’t remember) is the 55-and older communities. Are there others?</p>

[curmudgeon]

<p>I can think of two quickly.</p>

<p>Age as a qualification for Office (President, etc.).
Upper age limit for military enlistment.</p>

[katliamom]

<p>How about upper age limit for Office (President, etc.) ?</p>