Conduct: the manner in which a person behaves, especially on a particular occasion or in a particular context.
So how about yelling and screaming calls for intifada? Yelling glory to their martyrs? Praising their Oct 7 actions as “creative” and “determined”? Doing all of this in common school spaces where other students are trying to get to class? Does their right to speech extend to blocking other students access to class? Doing it using megaphones where other students have no choice but to listen when they may want to listen to their class? How about screaming these things in the middle of a class lecture? When exactly is speech conduct? Can you explain?
Is this conduct or speech? If I was a parent paying that hefty tuition, I would not be happy.
I know what standard the government uses to distinguish; whether NYU adopted that standard as well, I do not know. See the NYT gift for potential ramifications.
Apparently so. On Tuesday NYU student Bella Ingber spoke at a press conference and described her experience as a Jewish student at NYU right now - which includes physical assault and her classmates chanting “Gas the Jews” and “Hitler was right”.
People’s right to free speech is not unlimited. When they leave no recourse or space for others to ignore if they choose, it’s a violation of those people’s rights too. If you have a right to scream, I have a right to not listen. It’s as simple as that. If I can’t infringe on your right to speak, you also can’t infringe on my right to not listen. That’s why even in public space, they can require a permit if you’re going to use megaphones for example.
I have a right to attend my classes in peace when I’m paying close to $300 a day.
I never disagreed. All schools have time, place and manner restrictions on speech and most regulate the use of amplification equipment, as well as rules about the disruption of university operations, or something to that effect.
Sure but as we saw, MIT chose not to discipline violators of these rules. So again, what conduct were all three presidents alluding to? Do these students have to actually commit violence against other students before they do something. That’s just an abdication of responsibility because no worries, police will take over at that point.
A person who is assaulted should file a police report and criminal complaint with law enforcement. Those who engage in crimes are usually judgment proof and thus lawsuits are often not effective. Disagreements over university-based santions would be addressed to the university, which has discretion to respond, and likely distinguishes in some manner between conduct and speech.
Ms. Ingber is one of the plaintiffs in a lawsuit filed against NYU. According to the article linked below, her attacker has been charged with assault but it does not indicate that the university has disciplined him.
Thank you for sharing. So it would seem even when speech amounts to criminal conduct targeted at an individual (per the three presidents’ statements, it sounded like that was the threshold), there’s still no discipline. Granted this was NYU but given how close the other three statements/language were, you would think they all likely share similar “codes of conduct and policies”)
Do we know whether a university investigation is ongoing? It would be quite hasty for that to have concluded already, particularly if witnesses need to be called.
You know, I have to wonder - beyond just how schools are handling these things - who are these students who don’t feel any shame in saying things like this? Are they a couple of isolated people garnering attention because they’re loud or how many are there? That language goes well beyond racism. Who raised these individuals? I’ve seen it said at least students are standing up for their beliefs - I’m hopeful no one thinks that about students whose beliefs are basically in support of genocide. If I was their parent, I would be so ashamed.
I have not seen anything about whether NYU is taking disciplinary action against the student who assaulted Ms. Ingber. Hopefully they are. The incident took place on November 8.
I suppose NYU wouldn’t announce an investigation is underway. Plus the need to interview all the witnesses, the police, maybe campus security, and the holiday week could have slowed things down. At some schools the accused can get a lawyer if they wish. That could take a week.
To you and everyone else here who thinks the answers are simple, can you provide me with the answers? Assuming no time, place, and manner restrictions . . .
Should students be disciplined for saying “globalize the intifada?” If so what should the discipline be?
How about student supporters of Palestine who say, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free?”
How about if student supporters of Israel say, “Between the Sea and the Jordan there must be only Israeli sovereignty.”
How about if students supporting Israel call for the expulsion from the land controlled by Israel of all those who are considered to disloyal Israel?
How about if students who support Israel declare or imply that that the Palestinians in Gaza deserve what they are getting because of their perceived support for Hamas?
And which many current students are too young to even remember…So what they know about it is sometimes just what they’ve read in either biased sources or in social media sound bites.
