I mean, that’s kind of my point. racist incidents should not occur and the schools should at least try to prevent them. the fact that it happened to you is terrible but that doesn’t mean things like this should be ignored now. and I agree there should not be double standard. actually I’m not really sure you and I disagree on a lot of this.
4 Likes
Perhaps if the adults complaining were better able to draw that line themselves, colleges would have a plan for progress.
I hear that. but the college admins have pretty smart adults too, who can make some decisions for the good of the community. without applying any double standards or sacrificing true freedom of speech.
Presumably they are trying to do that; where they have drawn that line apparently offends some.
1 Like
If - or when? - the Israeli people eventually turn on Netanyahu and take to the streets demanding a ceasefire, something they have done in the past (over Beirut in the 80s) and something that US intelligence seems quite certain is on the horizon - then what?
Will there be apologies from all these morally upright leaders? Will Bill Ackman crawl back into his lair (please oh please oh please 
)
Will the vast network of Jewish organizations in the US, majority of which have been MUTE on the death of Palestinian civilians, finally speak??
Having lived through the past two generations of the Israel-Palestine conflict, I have to say that the movement of American public opinion on this issue has been rather extraordinary, as well as the recent shift in tone in US policymakers. On a purely intellectual level it has been absolutely fascinating to watch this younger generation figure out how to push and pull the levers of government. After Chuck Schumer’s speech, nobody can rationally claim that the protest movement isn’t working.
5 Likes
The Democrats just want to win Michigan.
2 Likes
Exactly my point. The “youths” figured out how important Michigan is to the democrats and they went all in. It worked.
2 Likes
Not really. Many Muslims live in Michigan. Without their votes, Biden will lose the state.
1 Like
We are saying the same thing 
I’m not talking about some absolute “right” or “wrong”. Biden cannot win unless he is seen to be taking seriously the demands of his constituents, more and more of whom are against Israel’s conduct in this war. These are the levers of democracy.
4 Likes
The daughter of Douglas Emhoff is openly fundraising for UNWRA on her Instagram page. I think this is a pretty good indication of just how far things have shifted.
If the US does really lay down its “red line” I’m curious how this will affect the atmosphere on the most hostile campuses. I hold out hope that this generation can eventually refocus on a two-state solution and re-embrace the idea of Palestinians and Jews living peacefully amongst each other
2 Likes
UNRWA (not UNWRA) allied itself with Hamas, clearly supports the destruction of the State of Israel. It worked hand in hand with Hamas, its textbooks support martyrdom in jihad against the Jews, its facilities have stored Hamas’ missiles for many years, its workers participated in the Oct 7th massacre. The UN already has an organization to deal with refugee crises, the UNHCR, but the “refugees” whom UNRWA serves are virtually all gone of old age after having been fruitful and multiplied (grown from as many as 700K to 5 million, but don’t look at the facts, just believe that growth from 700K to 5 million is genocide). The event that created them was in 1948, almost 80 years ago, at most . UNRWA is serving in its schools the FOURTH GENERATION since that event - not exactly refugees, especially since the ones in Gaza are living in their own potential state, from which Israel withdrew nearly 20 years ago, that they could have declared and built independently into whatever they wanted - and what they wanted was a launch pad for war.
There is one place in the world where Arabs (Palestinian) and Jews live peacefully together - that’s Israel, which is about 20% Arab, all with the full rights of citizens. The Jews of Yemen? Morocco? Egypt? Tunisia? Iraq? Algeria? Lebanon? Virtually all the Jews of the Muslim or Arab lands? ALL gone - ALL expelled, ALL having had everything they owned stolen from them by their neighbors and government.
A two state solution? Arafat turned down the best offer possible - a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, with East Jerusalem as its Capitol, made NO counteroffer whatsoever, and instead flew home to start the 2nd intifada. Hamas’ goal is very clearly stated in its charter - the destruction of the State of Israel, the expulsion of all its Jews, the establishment of an ISIS-like Muslim state (which essentially is what they’ve already done in Gaza). They’re not interested in a two state solution.
Douglas Emhoff’s daughter supposedly supporting UNRWA doesn’t legitimize UNRWA. Does Clarence Thomas speak for all African Americans? Did Patty Hearst speak for her father, when she supported the Symbionese Liberation Army? Did Amy Carter, poor thing who was so easily influenced and exploited, speak for her father?
The fact that most of the youth of Germany joined Hitler Youth didn’t make Nazi fascism right - it just meant that the youth were easily swayed.
10 Likes
Whoa there. I was merely pointing out developments in the political sphere. I quite agree with many of your points, not so much with others, but that’s ok, right? Isn’t that what freedom of speech and academic freedom are all about? Shutting down all conversation with a litany of talking points that inevitably lead to accusations of anti-semitism just isn’t working. Neither is ridiculing this younger generation.
(Also, we all know that auto correct isn’t quite up to date with every acronym out there, so maybe don’t start your reply by correcting the transposition of two letters? It’s petty. We all know what we’re talking about here.)
5 Likes
No, we aren’t. The Democrats are attacking Netanyahu and, by extension, Israeli democracy because they want to win Michigan and, secondarily, because they want to make sure they also don’t lose tens of thousands of Muslim votes in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Most young voters of other or no faiths/nationalities don’t care about the Israeli/Arab conflict or Gaza either way. Now, if you want to talk about why the Dems are all in on abortion, I would agree with you.
3 Likes
Have you talked to many young voters? I have, I work with youth voter registration efforts, and there are two issues they care about. Gaza is one, and I’m sure you can guess the other. But I also agree with the rest of your assessment. Multiple truths can exist at the same time, at least until we have the benefit of hindsight.
2 Likes
how did that “litany of talking points” shut down conversation? it was a passionate post but it doesn’t seem objectionable.
6 Likes
No, you’re right, it’s not objectionable. Most of us can handle having people express -even loudly, in all caps - things that we disagree with. But I find that conversations that look backwards on this topic tend to be unproductive and often end in “talking point” volleys.
Please move the political commentary to the political forum. Further threads will be removed.
1 Like
Apologies for going off-topic. To bring things back around the subject of college response, I am curious if Chuck Schumer’s speech and what appears to be a new tone is US critique of Netanyahu will have an impact on college administrative rhetoric.
At my DD’s school, a protest hotspot, many many many of the students protesting are Jewish. They are being accused of anti-semitism not only by some of their fellow Jewish classmates, but by the administration which has explicitly conflated anti-semitism with critique of Israel. Thus far I have not heard those charges being leveled at Schumer which tells me that he has threaded the needle successfully. (In contrast with Jonathan Glazer at the Oscars!)
Schumer’s well-known rabbi Rachel Timoner is interviewed in Politico and says she is proud of his speech, and that he represents what a silent majority of American Jews are thinking.
Could this be an opportunity to lower the temperature on college campuses? An entry point to more nuanced discussion? A possible shared demand for all sides of the conflict that Netanyahu must go?
2 Likes
As often as that point is made on CC (especially in the political thread), I don’t actually hear or see it written or said. People argue strenuously (see the political thread) in support of Israeli policy or, more often, defend it against its critics. But I don’t see many people come out and say, “You’re only saying that because you’re antisemitic.” There are people who (rightly IMO) point out that antisemitism is a fundamental complicating factor in the region, but that’s a very different thing and more appropriate for the other thread. As it relates to college campus disturbances, what I’ve seen written and heard stated is that there has been several incidents of antisemitism expressed (grafitti, vandalism, confrontations, harassment and intimidation, etc.), which is true. And I can vouch for the frequent and loud expressions of antisemitism expressed at public demonstrations through first hand experience at now four such events.
Maybe. IDK. You have to factor in that college campuses, by their nature, enjoy controversy and college kids like being loud and passionate about their opinions. The war still rages with daily media coverage, and so too does the controversy. When it ends, the passion will disappear and it will be on to the next controversial matter. I think it’s hard for anyone to argue that Schumer is antisemitic, so he’s in a privileged position, and as I said, I don’t take that as the first line of defense for the pro-Israel position. I think many of those who are critical of Israel feel like they have to come out and establish that they are pro-Israel and pro-Jew, almost as if they’re anticipating a charge of being anti-Jewish. Shakespeare has a line for that. I think most of us who support Israel (to a point) don’t assume those with whom we debate are Jew haters.
Lastly, I wouldn’t assume what the majority of American Jews think about anything because of a one rabbi. Just MO.
3 Likes
cquin85, I can point you to a few instances where antisemitism and critique of Israel are conflated:
- you can search social media and find audio recordings of administrators at Columbia telling protesters in disciplinary sessions that calling Israel an apartheid state is an “incitement to violence”. One can agree or disagree with the characterization, but last I checked this kind of speech is robustly protected by the first amendment and by principles of academic freedom, and contains no incitement to violence whatsoever.
- just google reaction to Jonathan Glazer’s Oscar speech, he is called out explicitly all over the place.
That being said, your point about examples of actual antisemitism is indeed true and does complicate all these discussions.
Trying to keep this college-focused, I guess I’m just looking for some hope that the temperature can be turned down.
2 Likes