I am sure no one will be excluded by claims of intersectionality. As you note, freedom to associate has a long history. Easier to avoid confrontations by not associating in any way.
Seems that is what you want, and that is where we are going. That often does not work out well for those not in the majority, but that is just a predictable consequence.
I hadnât even considered that - obviously that makes it so much worse but, even without that, I find this pretty irritating. Doing it one day, fine. But to take over one of the main entrances to campus indefinitelyâŠLike, would ANYONE else be allowed to do that? Could I do that? My bet is no - I would be asked to moved along or risk arrest for trespassing. Seems like a double standardâŠAnd then I saw an article in the Daily Cal yesterday that the ASUC voted on a resolution to protect Palestinian students from harassment. Which is fine - Iâm all for that. But what about Jewish students who seemed to have faced the larger burden during these protests? Just seems a rather unbalanced approach to me.
Not sure what in my posts came across as being anti-free speech.
I believe I was very clear all along that I support free speech and itâs the colleges prior abysmal record on this issue that make their attempt to shield themselves from criticism by using the fig leaf of free speech ludicrous.
But now, finally, there is no backing out. Like it or not, there will no longer be any sacred cows.
Free speech, however, doesnât mean itâs a free for all. There are still policies to be respected about time, place, and manner. No speaker cancellations by the mob veto. No discrimination of âZionistsâ in university-sponsored and university-associated clubs.
But thatâs just the beginning.
âHolistic admissionsâ are going to be next under the microscope.
It is clear that the putative goal of selecting students âby estimate of their characterâ has always been a lie. It is now hard to deny the universities are failing at it on a massive scale.
How has selecting some students for activism vs academic chops worked out so far?
Trust me, many more people will now be inclined to support politicians and policies that ensure meritocracy is, again, not a dirty word.
3 Likes
Itâs been happening before.
As far back as 2018.
Most people just had a luxury of not paying attention then.
I will be honest: when I was getting ready to leave the âold countryâ a quarter-century ago so that my future children might grow up in a country where they wouldnât be second-class citizens, I didnât expect things would deteriorate here this quickly (starting with 9/11).
But then again, in about a month, we will be reminded in reading the Passover Haggadah:
âIn every generation, they rise up to destroy us.â
Yet⊠Am Yisroel chai!
7 Likes
I do understand why they are doing it and why they believe itâs justified. The protestors believe that shutting down âbusiness as usualâ is the best way to expedite desired changes. From their perspective, the MORE disruptive their protest is, the better. Thatâs also the purpose of shutting down bridges, etc.
I think it is pretty clear what the protestors believe.
The question is, what do college administrations believe should be tolerated.
And what the public at large believes should be tolerated from college administrations.
4 Likes
Yes, I do understand that. But my family is in Ukraine. We too have held marches and protests and demonstrations to draw attention to the war there. So my same question stands: could I go block Sather Gate to protest Russian invasion? Would they allow me to do that more than a day? Or even an hour? Maybe they would. But I doubt it. And I am sympathetic to Palestinian self-determination - but I donât like what I perceive to be a double standard in rules and their enforcement.
7 Likes
I hear you, but I very much doubt holistic admission policies are going to change. They provide colleges with immense flexibility in deciding who to admit without ascribing a reason. Why would they choose less power over more power?
I never saw it as an either-or. I have imagined that you needed a baseline of âacademic chopsâ but, when selecting between students who have similar academic qualifications, holistic admissions would give a nudge based on things like essays and ECs (including activism). I have never assumed that those admitted students with an activism background were academically unqualified.
Well, this isnât really a discussion on college admissions, and I opined on this extensively in other threads, so I will just say that I take issue with the whole âbaselineâ argument.
If colleges have too many students that âcan do the work hereâ, then they should raise the level of their work.
2 Likes
On the contrary, your post did not come across to me as anti-free speech. I agree with your assertion that the uneven enforcement of policies over the past 5 years is what has landed so many admins in hot water at this moment. They waded into very murky waters by embracing certain movements and excluding others, and some have lost their ability to claim any neutrality. I am genuinely curious as to how they might try to correct course.
On the question of holistic admissions and recruiting for social justice - I am also curious to see where that takes us. I believe itâs too early to call those approaches failures. Weâll know more when (if! Haha) they enter the workforce.
I often remind myself that many of these students were first activated by the Parkland shooting and then in short order were surrounded by the metoo and george Floyd waves of protest, not to mention the political atmosphere in the US around the 2016 election. Itâs a tumultuous time in the civil life of America, so if colleges want to gamble on selecting some students who wish to engage with those issues as opposed to computer science or premed or Russian lit, it seems like a reasonable idea to me.
2 Likes
@worriedmomucb I believe you would in fact be allowed to show up day after day after day to protest the Russian invasion.
Yes, I could show up and protest. Could I block one of the main entrances to campus with my protest? That I very much doubt. And I have never witnessed such a thing being allowed at Cal until now.
2 Likes
How about protesting Ukrainian war of self-defense?
(just so we are comparing apples to apples)
2 Likes
Oy vey, donât get me started on Russian lit. My mother tongue feels toxic in my mouth latelyâŠ
I mean, no offense to UCB, but you sort of come to expect this kind of meshuga on their campus. It comes with the territory.
But someone comes to MIT - I expect them to have better things to do.
5 Likes
@worriedmomucb i am from Berkeley so Iâve witnessed quite a bit 
As a kid I vividly remember the South African apartheid sit-ins. When Mandela was eventually elected president and was welcomed to America on a victory tour (this was after spending decades on the US terrorist list), he insisted that there be a stop in the Bay Area so that he could show his appreciation to the UCB students. Those protests were massively disruptive to the university.
My parents met and married as UCB students in the late 60s and they can tell many many more stories.
Students in the Reddit thread were discussing filing an ADA complaint because the protest is causing the campus to be increasingly inaccessible to students with physical disability (such as students in wheelchairs), as well as these students with PTSD who are avoiding the area due to the audio tracks.
5 Likes
@tamagotchi And this is where you start to test the strength of intersectionality! I hope that the protestors will quickly alter their positions to make sure that theyâre not impeding accessibility - that should be against their principles.
Yes, protest and disruption are nothing new to Cal. They are indeed a part of its history and culture. I am talking specifically about blocking a campus entrance - not for a day, not for a week, but day after day indefinitely. Has this happened before? Maybe it has. But I am not aware of it. And, as I said, my doubt is that any other group would be allowed this privilege. I could be wrong, but this is my perception.
Yes, this is so difficult. I do love some Russian literature (Master and Margarita is my favorite novel of all time), and I love some Russian music (Tsoi has been such a part of my life since I can remember - heâs like an old friend ). But, yes, feels like a betrayal of my Ukrainian family and friends now. There is no simple solution to this issue.
(Edited to add: actually we do still speak Russian at home. It is hard to change this, too.)
1 Like