<p>Thanks RM for your suggestions. I think because I am in thick of the “college applications” with S1 at the moment, and also in reading this thread, I started to think about listing colleges for S2, which is clearly way too premature since he will just be a freshman. However, little by little I will start the process way in advance, as you did too, so that by the time he’s a junior I also will feel like he’s got some viable choices. Yeah, I see that colleges in the Northeast have been talked about quite a bit, so I have a great jumping off point to start with.</p>
<p>Keep your fingers crossed…S1 has a favorite that he is applying ED to…hope he gets in…guess we’ll know in a few short months!</p>
<p>Good luck touring American, Elon, etc…hope they can be added confidently to your list!</p>
<p>I am enjoying exploring and seeking opinions on schools I may have not thought of on my own. In efforts to seek merit aid vs applying locally is a tough line. It will come down to the fine balance of pros and cons and affordability. </p>
<p>Speaking of affordability. Money question.</p>
<p>Assuming our EFC says we can afford a Harvard tuition, and our personal EFC (ummm there are other expenses, retirement, rainy day fund, etc.) is on a different page - what options are there for families?</p>
<p>Can our student apply for govt loans even though EFC is high?</p>
<p>Is it wise for us to take out full private loan? </p>
<p>cherryhill - I would recommend looking at the Financial Aid forum and reading a bit there. There is a whole thread, for example, that describes legitimate ways to reduce your EFC. There are also some good explanations on there regarding subsidized and unsubsidized Stafford loans and Parent Plus loans. Look for posts by Swimcatsmom and Thumper1 among others - very knowledgeable on FA.</p>
<p>Other strategies include - applying to schools where your student is high stat - so that you get merit aid; home equity lines of credit - more difficult these days - but may still be an option for some; and most importantly - including some financial safety schools on your list. This would be my single biggest recommendation. Whatever amount you can afford to simply write a check for each semester - there should be schools in this price range on the list - probably these will be in-state options - that you can pay for without merit aid or need-based FA. </p>
<p>Those of you who have read my “what I have learned” posts regarding S1 know that this was the single biggest mistake we made - we had no financial safety schools. The stress level - until March 30th when 2 great acceptances with great FA arrived - was unbearable. That’s why S2 has Towson and Salisbury on his list - won’t make that mistake twice!</p>
<p>Here’s a good option for a B student interested in a fairly small school located in the Finger Lakes region of NY. Student body is just about 2000 students - about 10% Jewish according to the national Hillel website. Here’s a link re Hillel:</p>
<p>Seems to have a pretty broad array of majors/minors - including a minor in Holocaust Studies. This is a fairly expensive school - $50,000 range - but they seem to offer quite a few merit scholarships:</p>
<p>Also want to mention that they do offer a test optional admissions plan. Photos of the campus look gorgeous - just not sure what winters would be like.</p>
<p>^^HBS: we visited last summer (actually was the first school we looked at); beautiful setting; a little remote (but a small shopping area is within walking distance as is the town of Geneva)…programs look terrific; it is on my daughter’s list as a RD school (if we get that far, hehe)…Jewish life is definitely present, albeit not overwhelming (and the minor in Holocaust Studies looks great…)</p>
<p>on another note, our school profile came out today and it is a bit weird…we do not rank, nor do we calculate cumulative GPA…they do give a grade distribution in each class though…</p>
<p>now to the weird stuff: they calculate a junior yr GPA distribution; unweighted with all classes included…from mere glance, it looks like the midpoint? is around a 3.2 ish…here’s the kicker though: </p>
<p>when you look at the grade distribution in the major courses (fluff electives are not included), the large majority of the grades in both honors and college prep classes are in the B to B- (3.0-2.67) range…just wondering if colleges will take the time and realize that the GPA junior year distribution is artificially inflated by including all courses taken…hmmmmm…I guess it’s not something to fret over; what’s done is done…just curious how this is looked at…I’m assuming course rigor will account for the discrepency as long as one is not applying to a “stats only” type of school…</p>
<p>We visited Hobart last Spring. Even for Upstate NY it is very remote. Gorgeous setting overlooking the Lake, but I think it would be forbidding and cold in the long upstate winters. Geneva is an upstate summer resort and I think it would feel very empty in winter. Very large spread out campus with lots of open underutilized space between buildings. With the separate living arrangments and attitudes of the students, the school still retains a lot of the feeling of having been separate but recently a combined Mens and Womens’ schools. The people in the Admissions office were incredibly, almost excessively friendly, but that may have been because due to the cold rainy weather we and another student from Buffalo were the only ones who showed up. I’m surprised at the 10% Jewish statistic because the place gave off to us a non Jewish vibe, at least culturally. Not in any way unfriendly, at all but rather…how shall I put this, …Goyishly Interfaithfully accepting. The Holocaust Studies thing felt a part of it.</p>
<p>I visited Skidmore about five years ago with my older daughter and although we thought the campus architecture looked boring, the town of Saratoga is gorgeous and would make an ideal college town. The student body did have a strong arty and perhaps pot smoking feel to it. Back then the school and students t did not seem academically challenging enough for that D, but it is and has become even more over the past few years, very reachy for a true B student.</p>
<p>Chocchipcookie, I don’t really have much to add about Binghamton. For NYers (in our area anyway) it has the reputation of still being the best of the SUNYs but…boring and a kind of depressing place to go to (though not as bad as Albany). Mostly it’s viewed as a school for high achieving students who for economic reasons can’t go to a comparable private school. It was on the application list for both my older kids but each wound up going elsewhere. My older daughter went to Colgate. I have no idea how my daughter picked even applying to Colgate, in HS it seemed like the last place she would ever want to attend. But when she was accepted she visited and loved it. (She’s currently living in NYC with three Colgate friends and is still so active as an alumna that we refer to it as Cultgate). My son is a sophmore at UMichigan. He wanted Vanderbilt but didn’t get accepted and now is incredibly happy and glad that he wasn’t. He is having about the best time in college as anyone I’ve ever heard of (doing well academically too). I think something about a school just “clicks” with a kid. Maybe a strange analogy, but like Justice Stewart and pornography, they know it when they see it.</p>
<p>Just got through catching up on the thread. Someone had raised the question of why bother applying to OOS public schools, when the in state publics are a good option. We have a number of OOS public schools on our list, most of them as safety schools. The reason is that my D does not want to stay in state. In order to give her more options in case merit or FA doesn’t come through from any of her match or reach schools we have some OOS publics that look like they could provide her with merit $'s. Based on her stats and looking at the schools websites, it looks like she could potentially qualify for some significant $$'s at these schools. We are going to be casting a very wide net with her college applications, to both try to find the right fit for her academically and socially and for us financially. </p>
<p>I just wanted to put my thought process out there in case it helps anyone.</p>
<p>re binghamton – someone else referring to it as boring depressing place to go prompted me to respond. i know a lot of happy students there.
when my oldest was looking at colleges – about half a dozen years ago, binghamton was recognized as the best of the suny university centers (geneseo being the best of the lac’s in suny), but people generally weren’t that excited – most of my kids’ classmates who applied did so thinking of it as a safety – both in terms of admissions (these were kids in top 10-15% of their class) and financial.
as a result of the economy, more kids ended up choosing binghamton for economic reasons. i think as a result more people seem to be taking it more seriously as a prospective school and people’s attitudes seem to have caught up with the quality. i know several friends whose kids started at binghamton with a guaranteed transfer admission to far more prestigious private schools – fully intending to give it a year and move on – and their kids loved binghamton and stayed. i think now you have more kids there who want to be there, rather than viewing it as having had to settle.
its selectivity has skyrocketed – in staters who would have gotten in a few years ago, aren’t getting in – and i think that has resulted in more students thinking its worth attending (nothing like telling someone they can’t get in, to make them want to!). they seem to have an admissions preference for OOS, but i can’t say just how reachable that makes it for B students – you can look back at admissions threads for this past cycle and you’ll probably be able to gather some stat info.</p>
<p>What can any one tell me about Touro college in New York? The daughter of a friend of mine (the daughter is highly observant…the parents, not so much) has just enrolled in the business program there after being unhappy at her midwest-state flagship.</p>
<p>unbelievablem, it was me who brought up Binghamton having the reputation of being boring and I want to stress that I’ve never visited and don’t know any kids there. So I wasn’t saying that it is boring etc. Just that it had that reputation a couple of years ago when my older two were applying.</p>
<p>But your post brings up a question that also came up today (during Kiddush). It may not be of interest or applicable to everyone here but I’m curious as to what you all think. You’re right that at least here in NY, because of economic conditions the past few years, a number of higher achieving students who otherwise would have headed to more selective and expensive private colleges and universities, are now turning instead to State schools. That has (unfortunately for my third daughter) increased the selectivity of a number of state schools. But someone asked today whether it might also have made some, previously more selective private schools, possibly a bit more receptive to a “B” student whose application indicated that they would not be asking for financial aid. We’re not talking here about donating a dorm like Meg Whitman but merely paying the full ride without financial aid.
What do you think? Has anyone heard of this occurring? Or which schools it might be a strategy for if you were in that position?</p>
<p>seems to be where a lot of highly frum folks go, including hassidim who hadn’t been willing to look at ANY college until the last few years. I have a niece who got a BA and an MA in special ed there. Never really had the chance to ask about the experience. We are pleased she managed to get higher ed at all.</p>
<p>mhc48 - the following article from the New York Times is over a year old - but it says exactly what you asked - that full pay students do have more of an advantage now - particularly at private schools.</p>
<p>I believe more schools are becoming “need-aware” and all things being equal - when a college is looking at 2 students with similar stats - but one needs considerable FA and the other is full pay - I would imagine the full pay kid has the tip. </p>
<p>As far as strategy - the one thing I plan to do with S2 is to not apply for FA if the school is only a few thousand over our EFC. My rationale is that we probably wouldn’t get much anyway - and why take the chance of harming his admission chances over a few thousand dollars? We’re already scrimping - what’s a little more belt-tightening? Of course, he has a few $50,000 schools on his list and we could not afford those unaided - those we will apply for FA and he’ll just have to take his chances. But I agree that wealthy families who do not need or would not qualify for FA really do have an advantage (as if they needed more) in the present economic climate.</p>
<p>We thought about Touro. Touro has excellent practical Business and other programs, small school, conservative outlook. Also, price is reasonable (around $18,000 vs. $50,000 or so for Yeshiva University). However, my son attends a public school, is not looking for a religious lifestyle, and would therefore, not be a social fit.</p>
<p>Rockville Mom: Unless you are very wealthy, I think it is a mistake to pass up on financial aid if you get the right aid, meaning grants and work study. It is much easier to get an on campus part time job if you are on work study. I realize this might not be a big thing to you, but work study is actually a tremendous plus because it is an opportunity to get some work experience, especially if your son finds some part time work in a relevant, interesting area on campus.</p>
<p>Others: I think it is going to be a much tougher year for in state school acceptances. I also think it will be extremely competitive for the top private schools. Medium to low private schools might have a better chance of financial aid for B to B plus students. I can’t prove this, but based upon everything I read, sounds realistic.</p>
<p>mdcissp - I agree with you completely re work study. S1 has very generous FA at his school - including work study - and has a job that he loves in an area that is of great interest to him - it has worked out beautifully. But - his situation is very different from S2. He is a very strong student and is also attending a very expensive school - one we would never have been able to afford without FA. So, in his case, applying for FA was not optional.</p>
<p>I have really tried to assemble a more varied range of schools - in terms of price - for S2. So while there are a few $50,000+ schools under consideration - there are also several that are considerably less. My point is simply - and let’s just use round numbers - if your EFC is $25,000 and the COA is $30,000 - does it make sense to apply for FA? My viewpoint is that it does not. I would be more concerned about jeopardizing the admission. I could be completely wrong here - but if we applied for FA and he did not get in - I would always believe that was a factor. So, I’m hoping to avoid it if possible.</p>
<p>Rockville Mom: I think you are mistaken. I write this in your best interest. Steps are:<br>
Apply to colleges
Wait for acceptances
3… Decide on which school is your first choice to accept.
Apply for financial aid</p>
<p>You can double check and see if school is “need blind”.
Moreover, with the economy as bad as it is, most schools know that most kids are going to applly for fin aid.</p>
<p>I think your S2 should apply to those schools of interest to him, wait for acceptances, see if merit aid is offered, then apply for fin. aid.</p>
<p>I think your S2 should apply for fin. aid and then see what you want to do… $5,000. is considerable when it is X 4 or $20,000 by graduation.</p>
<p>If you think I am mistaken, I suggest you call the schools in mind, and ask them if appllying for financial aid impacts admissions decision.</p>
<p>mdcissp: Not really. Most colleges will have you apply and ask whether you want to apply for financial aid and you click ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ Acceptances and rejections come in and then you get a letter saying this is what your financial aid is.</p>