<p>Changing topics again!
D2 is visiting D1 at Tulane this weekend. She was sitting next to a woman on the plane from Alabama and they chatted for hours. When D2 disclosed she was Jewish, the woman asked, “What do devout Jews think of Jesus?” D2 stumbled around for an answer (she probably doesn’t know the answer!) and then added to me via text:“She was really nice, though. She liked me and she is pro-choice and pro-gay marriage so she wasn’t too weird!”</p>
<p>RVM, here’s my second try at at reply the first one is in a cyber black hole</p>
<p>I’m glad the wedding went well and no one was hurt. I’m sure that people on both sides of the aisle felt that important things were missing. Sometimes our kids make choices that we wouldn’t make and we make adjustments because we what is important to us is that we want them to live a good life and be happy. I wonder if in circumstances of this kind if it is better to do nothing from either side or better to include pieces of each culture. I’m sure the answer is different for different people. As parents we sometimes do what we have to do and make a decision to be happy about it.</p>
<p>Vitrac: It sounds like your daughter will do just fine in the south! </p>
<p>On my post that disappeared I also had a side conversation. I was recently at a POA meeting and was talking with a neighbor who several years ago was the president of the booster club of a group my S1 belonged to. In the course of conversation she mentioned how difficult it was to take over that group and the resistance she received from the prior adminstration. In the course of this conversation she stated, “they called me a Jew”. It was hard to read this and I thought that everyone knew I was Jewish. My first statement was “ouch” my second was to put my arm around her and say, “that’s a good thing”. I don’t know if she was making a statement about how aweful the prior group was or if she was telling me how they insulted her. I’m doing my best to stay neutral on this one but really there are some things people just don’t need to repeat!</p>
<p>BTW, the only reason I am mentioning it is because this happened a couple of weeks ago and as you can see I haven’t let it go yet.</p>
<p>I recently went to a cousin’s wedding where both a priest and rabbi presided. I think Spectrum’s view is very wise. With the divorce rate as high as it is, just hope for their happiness.<br>
In the case of the wedding I attended, my cousin, the bride, is from a very affluent Westchester area and Syracuse sorority and often seemed very superficial and meterialistic. The groom, who we have met several times over the years, is wonderfully sweet, grounded and sincere. It seemed to my wife and I that she made a great choice which reflected her maturing and developing better values.</p>
<p>Yes, I missed the glass breaking and worry how they will handle the difficult choices ahead. But watching her college and high school friends walk around as if they were God’s gifts, pushing past old people and not acknowledging when doors were held open for them, etc, I think she made a great choice. RVM’s bridal shower on Yom Kippur story does seem remarkably rude, however, as would holding one on Easter Sunday.</p>
<p>Well - one observation I made as I looked at various family members - and their marital states - divorced - separated, etc. - is that marrying Jewish is no guarantee of a successful marriage. I think my issue is more with the children of these recent mixed marriages and my dismay at seeing them being raised as Christians. Maybe this most recent couple will be different.</p>
<p>rvm- while I understand your dismay at the loss of family traditions and history, think about your last statement. I am a Christian,and product of a mixed marriage between a Christian and a Jew. I doubt that you meant to offend people, but your statement standing alone does not sit well with me.</p>
<p>If either of my children fell in love and married a Jew, I would not be unhappy and would welcome that person into our family. And if my kids decided to raise my grandkids as Jews, I would not be dismayed. And I’d want to participate in their Jewish traditions, and would be happy to light a Menorah with them or participate in their Seders. Please keep an open mind - tolerance of other religions is what our country is based on!</p>
<p>pamom - it’s not about my lack of tolerance for other faiths - I have a very diverse circle of friends - as do my children. It’s about the challenges facing the Jewish community. It saddens me to think that after facing pogroms, the Holocaust, etc. - the greatest threat to the continuation of the Jewish faith may come from within. </p>
<p>Recent statistics suggest that 50% of young Jews today are marring non-Jews. Only 1/3 of the children born in those mixed marriages are being raised as Jews. That’s my concern - that after surviving generation of persecution - Judaism could die out through assimilation and mixed marriages. </p>
<p>My father lost the majority of his family in the Holocaust. Every relative who remained in Europe was killed. He lost his grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. I was raised with this history in my head and in my heart. I feel it is my duty, honor and privilege to raise my children in the Jewish faith - partially as a tribute to those who perished. And yes - it saddens and disappoints me when I see my young Jewish relatives ignoring their Jewish heritage and raising their children as Christians. I say that not out of prejudice against Christians - but because the tiny Jewish population needs every Jewish child if we want to make it into the next century and beyond.</p>
<p>Because others can explain it better:</p>
<p>[Intermarriage:</a> A Jewish Obsession « Marriage « Ohr Somayach](<a href=“http://ohr.edu/2525]Intermarriage:”>http://ohr.edu/2525)</p>
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<p>Well put RVM!! That is exactly the gist of it. Preservation of our culture, our religion, our history and our future.
My own feeling are that my daughters will raise Jewish children, regardless of who they marry since Judaism is determined by the maternal line. BUT:
I would be very unhappy if my son married a non-jew who was not willing to convert to Judaism.</p>
<p>I think that Jews have certainly understood through our history that we are a religious minority. We are not a religion that tries to convert others and we have a history of religious tolerance.</p>
<p>However, it is frightening to many Jews when we see that our numbers are dwindling as a result of intermarriage in the last generation or two.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is intolerance to say we wish this was not so. It is one thing to accept others into the family with respect and tolerance for their religious differences. It is much harder to accept the fact that an acceptance of intermarriage we may be the end of a family’s religious affilitation to Judaism that has endured through many generations.</p>
<p>Yes I do get that side of it, but I don’t think that is the only side. The fact that you raise your kids in a certain faith does not guarantee that your kids will embrace the faith, religious identity and/or traditions the same way that you do. If that happens (and I realize it may not be your preferred outcome) I believe it is better to set aside your disapproval/dismay and work to preserve family unity as well as encourage the expression of faith and religious values even if they differ from yours. Moreover, there is plenty of common ground between Judaism and Christianity- lets not forget that we share the entire Old Testament! Having been educated in a religious school, I find that I know more Old Testament than many of my Jewish friends.</p>
<p>pamom - I agree with you that there are no guarantees that a child raised in the Jewish faith will become a practicing Jew as an adult. And I agree on basic ideals of family unity and harmony - I will be disappointed if either son marries a non-Jew - but I won’t be sitting Shiva - I will be trying to forge bonds with future daughter-in-law. </p>
<p>But would I prefer my sons to marry Jewish girls - absolutely. Do I hope for Jewish grandchildren - unequivocally. Which takes me back full circle to my thought process when starting this thread 1.5 years ago - my desire to find colleges that would not only be safe and friendly environments for Jewish students - but would also have the resources and organizations in place to support and nurture their Jewish identity.</p>
<p>Do Christians and Jews share certain values? Of course. But - at risk of stirring the pot - Christians have also been persecuting and killing Jews for centuries. Anti-semitism has not been wiped out. I find the emphasis on common ground to be somewhat simplistic and naive when you consider the historical background and the demographic imbalance. In a perfect world - perhaps we could have a Kumbaya moment and move on to world peace - but I don’t think we are there yet.</p>
<p>I recall we have had some discussion of Bradley University in Peoria, Ill - but don’t recall seeing this article posted:</p>
<p>[JUF</a> News : New Bradley University Hillel House Welcomes Students Home](<a href=“JUF News : JUF New(s)!”>JUF News : New Bradley University Hillel House welcomes students home)</p>
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<p>The other “problem” with intermarriage and the kids being raised Christian is that many people will still see them as Jewish. No matter where in the world they go, should something terrible happen, they will be considered Jews. I believe every child born of a Jewish parent needs to know how a lot of the world views them and why.</p>
<p>We do have at least two families in town where the kids were raised Jewish in the interfaith marriage, but that is the exception to the rule.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that RVM’s kids have inherited her values and will marry women who are, like them, honest, caring and substantive. And, because she has rightly raised her kids to see beyond labels and think for themselves, they may well marry nonJewish women, because they will likely encounter so many more of them and not rule them out.</p>
<p>If that happens, I am sure RVM will welcome her daughter in law as gracefully and supportively as anyone would and as PAmom would hope in every important way–except that thinking RVM would or should embrace religious values which are not her own is a bit much, depending on where the line is drawn. A mutual embrace of the 10 Commandments is relatively easy for Jews and Christians; a shared view of the divinity of Jesus or whether unbaptized people cannot enter heaven is less so.</p>
<p>This is obviously similar to how mixed couples of other faiths may struggle over the divinity of Mohammed; the infallibility of the Pope; or tenets of Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.</p>
<p>I have seen a lot of marriages between Christians and Jews and the children were often raised as Jews, although I have also seen them raised as Unitarians and with one child choosing to be Jewish and the other Catholic. All of the marriages have lasted decades so far, which I cannot say of many same faith (of many faiths) marriages I have known.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting the Bradley U info, RVM. Although my S2 is only a sophomore this year, that is a school that it is on my radar…it is relatively close to home, and one he should be able to get into. Don’t know much about what it’s like to be a student there, or prospects for its graduates, but that is all research to be done. I actually had a good friend in college who went there and liked it very much (not jewish), but that was a long time ago and I remember he would lament when he came to visit us at UMich, that their football excitement revolved around the fraternities playing each other since there was no “real” football. I did see that they have a small AEPi on campus as well.</p>
<p>I completely “get” your feelings about intermarriage, especially as a mom of boys.</p>
<p>I’m looking at some summer programs for my S2, and posted a question on the Summer Programs site, but got no responses, so I figured I would try here. Is anyone familiar w/ Summer Discovery, Summer Academy or Super Camp which are all held at various colleges?</p>
<p>Well, I am back from our college visits. I never want to drive to/from Binghamton EVER again. It took 6 hours to get home yesterday, featuring a two-hour delay on I-80 to go 7 miles. It was insane.</p>
<p>The net-net - while DS liked Lafayette better than Binghamton, neither broke into his “top two.” He much prefers the smaller sized school, and we got to sit in a class at Lafayette (he chose a physics classes and the prof took time to chat with us after class). The campus buildings are really random (tour guide used this word a lot, I thought). Interesting to have a LAC with engineering. Significantly for DS, he absolutely hated the food at Lafayette though (he’s a vegetarian so that matters to him).</p>
<p>The ride to Binghamton from Easton, PA, was really easy and nice scenery (although there was no bonding as DS slept the entire time in the car). I didn’t love driving through hail.</p>
<p>We had dinner with DD’s friend at Binghamton on Friday night and that was great. He gave us a lot of insights you don’t get in an info session. “Dry” rush at most fraternities (although little sleep) and easy to get in, engineering friends failing calculus, TONS of kids from LI, NYC, Westchester (says he rarely meets kids from true upstate), large classes (which he likes, but DS doesn’t). He said his entire pledge class at his frat is Jewish (!) and they had to go to Chabad for some things. The next day, we had an excellent tour guide and it was really a beautiful day. But DS not impressed. </p>
<p>DS’ favorite part of the entire trip was sitting in on the physics class at Lafayette. Said he could have sat in on classes all day.</p>
<p>His #1-2 are still Miami and Lehigh. We will definitely try to sit in on a class when we go to Miami in February. I’m thinking we should go out to Lehigh again (pretty easy drive) to do engineering tour and sit in on a class.</p>
<p>I still feel like we need some schools that are similar to Miami or Lehigh that are safeties. Would love to find one the that is less expensive too. I don’t think Binghamton will be it. And no way will he go to Buffalo (big and cold). I was thinking about going out to Stony Brook just to check it out but he really wants to go away. </p>
<p>Maryland is a bit less expensive, but so big. He appreciates all the opportunities there, but really doesn’t want to go to a school that big.</p>
<p>I bought mega-millions tickets this morning. I couldn’t help it. That would make this college search so much easier!</p>
<p>LINYMOM- sounds like you had an interesting trip…though its too bad your son didn’t like Binghamton…that search for the right “safety” school seems like the most difficult part of the college search. Have you already visited and ruled out Drexel? They do give out a lot of scholarships for good SAT scores, so despite its high sticker price it might be a worth looking into as a safety.</p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestion, pamom, but DS doesn’t want to be in the city… the search goes on…</p>
<p>That is so interesting about the food at Lafayette. My brother went there 30 years ago, and joined a frat purely because he could get edible food that way. I guess things haven’t changed.</p>
<p>Sounds like very useful visits! Excuse me for forgetting - is “Miami” the one in FL or OH? Is your S OK then with the Midwest or South? Does he prefer a particular location, aside from not being in a city?</p>
<p>It’s very cool he loved the class. Isn’t that what this is all about? It’s wonderful when you can see how excited they are to go to college.</p>