Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
1241

<p>Montegut - thanks so much for the info on Tulane. It does have some of what we want - as far as many majors including business, Jewish life and plenty to do. My son is only a rising junior - so a lot will depend on his test scores this year and his grades. If he gets his tush in gear - he could have a shot at Tulane and University of Miami also. I am a little apprehensive about the distance - would prefer he be in driving range - but I am trying to keep an open mind at this stage of the process.</p>

<p>I think College of Charleston is a better fit for my son academically - and while it would be a long drive - it is doable - we are a very driving-oriented family as opposed to flying. Planning to visit Charleston in the spring.</p>

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<p>RM, I am sorry you did not care for JMU-and hope the facts that your son and husband did does not cause you issues.</p>

<p>To get you ready for your Muhlenberg and Susquehanna trips, and the inevitable comparisons of them with each other and with Gettysburg, here are 3 facts I found interesting from their respective websites:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Both Muhlenberg and Susquehanna are affiliated with the Lutheran Church. As MC has so many Jewish students, this helped me believe that the outreach by SU to Jewish students that you have noted is sincere, although not yet remotely as successful as MC’s. As these were easily the 2 most friendly places we visited; the 2 most focused on community service, as well as the 2 with the most straightforward, practical admissions materials (websites, pamphlets, etc), I wonder if they coordinate approaches. Although SU kids are said to be from 30 states and 12 foreign countries, we saw far more PA and NJ kids than other states. MC has more kids from NY than anyplace else, with NJ finishing second and PA third.</p></li>
<li><p>SU is now admitting 650 freshman; MC 550, so SU will wind up being somewhat larger in enrollment–but the SU campus is 306 acres, while MC’s is only 82. Both are very nice campuses. MC is part of a much larger town, so land may be more expensive, alhtough being part of a larger town has advantages, too.</p></li>
<li><p>SU says over 90% of students receive some aid, while MC, although somewhat more expensive, says only 65% do. I did not see average grants from either school. I do not know if MC’s greater selectivity allows them to be less generous with aid; whether their larger NY population is more affluent; or whether they give fewer, but larger grants.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>We just returned from SU’s freshman Preview Day–which sets the stage for the Orientation Week after the kids move in. The separate track of sessions for the parents were very well done and helpful–from discussions about the extensive efforts to keep kids from falling behind academically, to which computers to get for which majors, to small group discussions about common issues freshmen face.</p>

<p>I could not tell what the Jewish enrollment in the incoming class will be, but the orientation presentation made a specific reference to Hillel as a means of students finding friends. The other incoming freshmen were very friendly to my son, who has an obviously Jewish name. The kids were very down to earth in dress–no labels; fancy jewlery or watches, etc. </p>

<p>What a relief to have our son (and us) found the day made him even more convinced he had made the right choice!</p>

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<p>We visited Muhlenberg last Friday. What a lovely campus! The tour guide (a sweet and bubbly rising Junior who was headed to London in September for a semester abroad) told us that the incoming freshman class has just over 600 students. The student union is under renovation and was a bit of a mess but will be beautiful (by the end of August, they say).</p>

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<p>yabeyabe - that is so wonderful to hear - Susquehanna is next on our list to visit. Thank you for drawing some comparisons between the schools. My only concern now is that if S2 decides he wants a larger school with more of a sports orientation - I will really have to rethink things - hoping he likes what he sees this fall with Susquehanna, Muhlenberg and Elon.</p>

<p>Seiclan - glad you got to see Muhlenberg. I was following your thread about where to visit in the PA area - where else did you end up going?</p>

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<p>Oh, Rodney, please do not be afraid of Tulane because of stats. We have many students apply, and how they do acceptances and scholarships is still a mystery. A kid with much higher stats, better ECs than another can get a lower scholarship. We have seen it firsthand with our graduating class this year. Who knows what decides it: types of ECs, essay, curriculum taken, choice of major, and yes, even ethnicity. My son was recently contacted by a friend who was waitlisted by Tulane originally. He retook his ACT and got a 30. Tulane not only admitted him, but awarded him a full scholarship. Now, I’m not saying you’ll get that lucky, but please don’t let your fear of adequate scholarships hold you back from applying. Good luck!</p>

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<p>To Rockville Mom and JMU: I think your concern about entrance requirements for the Business school at JMU is a most legitimate reason to wonder if JMU is the right school.
Match of the right program for your child’s future is most important in the decision about the school. After visiting more schools, I think your son will make the best choice for what feels right to him. Your son may feel very differently about which school he wants after acceptances, scholarships finding out where friends are going, etc. are all on the table. Don’t worry. Things will work out for the best.</p>

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<p>Seiclan, glad you liked Muhlenberg, a great option for kids in this category. It is interesting that the guide referred to just over 600 freshman, as the website says: 2009 Freshman Class Profile </p>

<p>(As of July 2009) Applications Received: 4,409
Students Offered Admission: 2,001 (45.4%)
Students Enrolled: 580</p>

<p>Perhaps their 2010 yield increased slightly as the economy improved? My earlier post was wrong about NY being the largest source of kids–when I doublechecked the enrollment figure, I saw NJ is, at 33%, followed by NY 22% and PA 19%. </p>

<p>RM, your son might be suprised to know that both MC and SU actually offer more intercollegiate sports than JMU, although JMU plays Division 1 basketball and the lower division of Div. 1 football. As a huge sports fan, my thought would be that, from a spectator standpoint, if you are willing to go to a 4,000 freshmen school such as JMU, giving up the advantages of small schools to see relatively mediocre big time sports, why not go to UMCP, Penn State or Pitt and see much better teams?</p>

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<p>Oh, I wish that my daughter liked Muhlenberg! I liked it but she did not like it at all. The biggest surprise to me was how nice Allentown is! I only knew it from the song, so I was expecting businesses to be boarded up and closed, and the town to be run down. This was not the case at all! All the businesses were open and the houses were fixed up, and the town is in quite a beautiful setting. I also heard that Allentown is actually the third largest in population in PA (except for on football weekends, when State College actually has more people and takes third place).
Did you stop at the Hillel?
Regarding entrance for the business school at JMU: Indiana does this too, except for a very few students that they take directly into the business school (and those are the “A” students). Our B students have gone there with the intention of getting into the business school, and have invariably ended up majoring in Management, outside of the business school. They seem to be getting jobs anyway!</p>

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<p>Levirm- my d had the same reaction to Muhlenberg. Couldn’t explain it except that she didn’t like the street running through town!</p>

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<p>I meant to say the street running through campus. Can’t edit from my iPhone .</p>

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<p>One of the difficulties facing parents in this group is that after you find out that far fewer schools than expected meet your criteria, you learn that your child will veto some of those precious few for what seem like trivial or concocted reasons. </p>

<p>I think it reflects how uncertain kids are about what they really want and need, as well as their desire to assert some control over a scary process.</p>

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<p>I have to say the JUM thing really threw me for a loop - but the benefit of starting this process so early is that we have lots of time to visit schools, and then go back and visit schools a second time, etc. I am just annoyed with myself that I did not catch the part about the secondary application earlier - with all the time I spend researching colleges - you’d think I would have really caught that sooner and investigated the requirements for entry more thoroughly than the night before the visit! Oy.</p>

<p>I do have to say though that S1 has the same set-up at Wake Forest - he will apply to the business school in February. However, he is a much stronger student and his GPA after freshman year is well above the 2.75 minimum they require for entry. They also only have 3 prerequisite courses - while JMU has 10! I think also that S1 is much more likely to go on to grad school - so that if for some reason he did not get into the business school - he would just major in something else and plan on heading straight to law school or grad school after graduation. So, I’m not saying that this type of secondary application should be an absolute deal breaker - I think it depends on the kid.</p>

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<p>Given how many kids flounder in their freshman year simply from homesickness; the need for greater time management; etc, only to flourish later, secondary applications strike me as harsh to students and unwise for the schools.</p>

1 Like
1254

<p>rm: I am also not big on “secondary apps” for this kid, especially in a “biggish” school where the primary classes for freshman might be large lecture halls…to us, that’s too big of a risk given her educational experience (and strengths and weaknesses)…</p>

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<p>Rodney makes an excellent point.</p>

<p>In addition, a lot of student bonding with classmates and faculty takes place freshman year–secondary app B schools lose this factor</p>

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<p>Well, the good news is that at least it is not the scenario where he hates a school I thought was a great fit - although I am sure that will be a possibility in the fall. It’s just kind of funny in the sense that I thought we were going to see a larger school to confirm he would prefer a smaller school - and it just did not work out that way!</p>

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<p>^^interesting that you mentioned that; we kinda avoided all very large schools (unintentionally) on our initial visits based on other factors…for all I know, that could have been the reaction from here as well…</p>

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<p>I think the risk is particularly great with boys–they see big sports arenas and think "WOW! Just like ESPN! And I could party with a future NBA or NFL player!'</p>

<p>Plus, many kids in this category like large classes, because they do NOT want a lot of teacher attention.</p>

<p>Larger schools may also look unrealistically good in the Summer, when there are no mob scenes getting into buildings; long lines at bus stops, administrative offices and cafeterias, etc.</p>

<p>Seiclan, I thought your CampusVibe reports on Muhlenberg and Columbia were very helpful. As your son found the Muhlenberg tour guide insufficiently academically focused, you might look at Swarthmore, Haverford, Vassar, Franklin & Marshall and Ursinus in their respective admission categories.</p>

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<p>Yabeyabe - yes, yes and yes! Once again - you read my son so well. For example, JMU is division I-AA in football - but they are renovating and enlarging the stadium with the goal of becoming Division I - I saw S2 registering that fact. The tour guide spoke a lot about going to football games and the various traditions - yup - S2 listening then. Largest class size would be 300! Intro Psych, I think. Again you hit it - as a parent - I’m thinking smaller class size is better - S2 may be thinking - I don’t really like to participate in class - being invisible in a large lecture hall - cool. I can’t imagine navigating that campus in the rain - in the freezing cold - is it difficult to register for classes, etc. All we heard was “fun-sports-fun-frats-fun-cheesy Thursdays-fun-clubs”…you get the picture.</p>

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<p>“liked it but she did not like it at all. The biggest surprise to me was how nice Allentown is! I only knew it from the song, so I was expecting businesses to be boarded up and closed, and the town to be run down.”</p>

<p>I have been told that the song was really about Bethlehem, but Billy Joel called it Allentown so people wouldnt think it was a christmas carol or something.</p>