<p>If you are able to pay the entire cost of UMD, then by all means consider it. From what I know from this board- only the most exceptional students get merit aid from UMD- and by this I mean near perfect grades and scores. Also many large colleges tend to weigh test scores heavily. </p>
<p>Georgia Tech is great, but I think it is competitive for scholarships, so again, look at the costs. I second Chardo’s suggestion for Alabama and UDelaware. Now, a rising star on this board is Elon which has a 5 year dual degree program with several institutions that may be of interest. Elon is reasonably priced compared to many private schools. I don’t know about Drexel, Case Western, WPI- they have been mentioned as well.</p>
<p>Quick Q: If a college DD applied to calls and asks if she has any questions, is this a call to gauge her interest in the school? Her applications are already in and complete. She was taken by surprise and didn’t know what to ask or say. Would like to help prepare her if others should call. (Hope it is ok to post this here, but let me know if there is a better forum so I don’t pester you all! LOL) Thank you!</p>
<p>I would consider this interest She may want to think about what she might say but not to stress . Sometimes it’s a student calling and a casual call. Still she should be polite but not feel intimated.</p>
<p>lawdocsk8 - hello and welcome. I just wanted to add Virginia Tech to your list. About $32,000/year for OOS, so a more affordable option - great for engineering - and a very active Hillel and AEPi chapter. Larger than mid-sized, but if you are considering MD, add Virginia Tech.</p>
<p>NYMom - I’m not sure that these calls mean much of anything - assuming it was from a student, right? My son rcvd several such calls when he was a hs senior - generally from very peppy, enthusiastic girls. He was not into it and got off the phone asap. I do think it would be better to take the call, be enthusiastic and have a simple question ready, but can’t imagine this conversation counts for anything much.</p>
<p>After reading RVM’s reply, I would agree that the call does not mean anything significant in terms of admission. I would take it as the college showing interest in your D but not a guarantee of any outcome.</p>
<p>Maryland has a great engineering school. For kids who graduated in 12 they only let 30%ish of applicants in as direct admits. The engineering building is quite nice too. They have a really good reputation and he may get some sort of scholarship.</p>
<p>Thanks Pennylane and RVM. I didn’t think the call “meant” anything in terms of admission - guess I was just wondering what the actual purpose of it is.</p>
<p>NY Mom, some colleges routinely call their applicants in this manner. Pitt and Temple are two that I recall did this. The purpose of the calls is marketing, just the same as a colorful brochure, website, or an on-campus information session and tour is marketing. In this case, the approach is more personal, and allows an applicant the chance to speak one on one to a student.</p>
<p>Thanks, pamom59. So far, she’s gotten 2 of these calls, both from men who didn’t sound like students, but you never know! LOL DD is my first of 3 so this is all new to me.</p>
<p>My friend went to Duke and was horrified by the continual Christians references both associated with the school and not. She was a relatively observant Jew and the Christmas carols (starting about now until end of January) on public transportation drove her nuts and she ended up leaving with a master’s instead of getting a PhD because she felt the environment was hostile.</p>
<p>My point is that even if there is a Hillel on campus, you really don’t know unless you spend some time there, especially with the Hillel and any Jewish fraternities or sororities (perhaps MORE important than the Hillel, in my mind). If there is a Hillel because there was a dire need for Jews to stick together in a somewhat uncomfortable environment, is that what you would want?</p>
<p>On the flip side, are their synagogues off-campus? How is the Jewish community within the town? The City Data website can give you an idea of religious composition of the college town.</p>
<h1>17193- Was this recently? How old is your friend?</h1>
<p>Duke is historically associated with the Methodist church. There is an historic chapel, and a divinity school, but in recent times the overall campus does not appear to be a religious environment. The surrounding community is liberal.</p>
<p>I know older people and descendents of Holocaust victims who do feel a sense of horror around Christian symbols. It is reminiscent of a time when Jews were only safe in the presence of other Jews. While Jewish people are more or less comfortable with them, being “horrified” does not seem to be a prevailing response in recent times, at least in my experience. </p>
<p>From a cultural perspective, Christmas is a major holiday in the south, and there are Christmas trees, decorations, carols, and cards during the season. IMHO, the real threat to me on college campuses these days is the growing anti- Israel sentiment, not Christmas celebrations, but this is my feeling, not a point to argue, especially not on this board.</p>
<p>I agree that just because a school has a Hillel, that does not necessarily mean that it is the right environment for any particular student. It is best to check that out in context of the school. Some Hillels are more active than others. Look beyond the Hillel at the rest of the community- Chabad, social groups and so on to see if it fits your student. </p>
<p>Jewish students from different backgrounds have different levels of comfort with regards to size of Hillels and the predominant culture in any community. Different schools and regions of the country have different cultures, and a college in the south may feel different from one on the west coast or in the northeast. A student who feels most comfortable in a large and observant Jewish community may want to seek a similar one in college. However, there are also Jewish students who are happy and safe, attending colleges in regions that have have predominantly Christian communities and celebrations.</p>
<p>Pamom59, we would get a 1/2 tuition waiver, plus a scholarship for grades & test scores, but son refuses to attend where his dad is teaching, since he would see him (and many of the other people he knows) all the time. He attended a (free) honors engineering program there this summer and enjoyed it but ran into people he knew all over campus. </p>
<p>We offered him a new car if he would go there but no dice. He does, however, get in-state tuition at URI if he goes there so that is a pretty likely choice.</p>
<p>UMD looked perfect till I saw how big it is–his K-8 had 200 kids and the high school (less than 1000 kids) seems huge to him. Dad went to Purdue for grad school and said to wait and do that if he’s interested in that area–he felt the classes were too large for undergrad. None of us was sure about Rose-Hulman (or Olin, he got his SATs) because he’s also very good at humanities stuff and wants to get in some good classes in those as well.</p>
<p>Rhandco and Pennylane, we live in a pretty rural part of Maine so we are used to endless Christmas carols, Santa Claus showing up at the school concerts and pancake breakfasts, etc. (His last year in middle school I had to go to the principal and demand that they not play Jesus bingo in Spanish. I am not kidding.) so we are used to it–he just wants to be able to do participate in Jewish activities on campus. </p>
<p>My dad actually taught at Duke so I grew up in that area, and it was about the same as it is here!</p>
<p>lawdoc, sounds like you have investigated the likely choices for affordable public options in New England. If you are looking at private colleges, they won’t be affordable for you unless he gets merit. You will have to look at schools where his stats put him in the top 25%. Have you looked into the programs and potential merit aid at Quinnipiac? I have a friend whose daughter goes there and received a large merit award. She is Jewish and likes the school.</p>
<p>“Hostile”? Is that really the correct word? Perhaps “uncomfortable,” “tiresome,” but “hostile”? Such an aggressive word! Substitute “Yeshiva” or “Brandeis” for “Duke” in the above sentence, substitute Christian and “passover” in the relevant other spots, and then re-read and see how you feel about using the word “hostile.” As in:</p>
<p>“My friend went to Yeshiva and was horrified by the continual Jewish references both associated with the school and not. She was a relatively observant Christian and the Jewish mantras, symbology, and menoras plastered everywhere, and the fact that nothing was ever open on Saturdays, drove her nuts and she ended up leaving with a master’s instead of getting a PhD because she felt the environment was hostile.”</p>
<p>^ point made, but that is why I made the reference to the Holocaust. In modern times USA, “hostile” is a harsh and inaccurate description for a predominantly Christian community. However, some people may percieve it this way because of past connections and experiences.</p>
<p>During certain times in history, and still in certain areas of Europe and Poland, hostility towards Jews still exisists. These are very different cultures. For one: there is not separation of church and state. The two are the same. In historical times and even today, an anti-semitic leader or government was connected to the church as well. Pope John Paul II addressed this part of history and made restorative connections between Catholics and Jews. </p>
<p>There are Jewish people for whom Christian symbols invoke fear and feel hostile, even though the intent today is not. They are people who experienced this or are related to those who did and have passed on that fear in a cultural sense. Many Jews in American today are descended from people who came here to escape a hostile environment. </p>
<p>People who are not aware of this history, or who did not experience it may not understand why anyone would feel this way. I would also say this is not the predominant feeling of younger Jews raised in America today, who have not had to fear persecution.</p>
<p>Although Duke is not overtly religious it is historically tied to the Methodist Church. If a student is not comfortable with this, then there are other colleges to choose from.</p>
<p>I agree. The fact that the Duke crest has a christian cross on it should flag something to Jewish applicants about the general bent of the university, although Yale of course has hebrew on its its open book on its crest and it is not a “Jewish” university. I appreciate how someone might feel that the environment around them is “hostile,” but the work implies a certain level of aggressiveness or patterened structure designed to make someone else uncomfortable. I don’t believe Duke, or Brandeis, or most any university is “hostile” to the variety of religions on their campuses. I am sure, for example, that there are Jews at Notre Dame who roll their eyes at the “Grotto” that is prominently positioned there, and there are Jews at Georgetown who may not be happy that there is a crucifix in every classroom of that Jesuit University. In both these cases, the Christian faith is clearly in the atmosphere, but no one actively pushes it on you. In fact, giving the traditionally highly generous nature of Jews, most Southern universities (read: Vanderbilt) have made it almost an explicit goal of admissions to increase their Jewish populations.</p>
<p>pamom59, We are going up to see Quinnipiac in a couple of weeks for Open House…happy to hear they award merit…I wasn’t sure how generous they would be!</p>
<p>I agree with you. Duke is not the problem. It’s the person’s perception that is the problem, but that may have been based on some previous experiences.
The history of colleges in the US is that many of them were founded by churches as religious educational institutions, and they evolved into secular ones. Some of their historical buidings are beautiful, like the chapels at Duke and many other schools. They are now diverse institutions that welcome any religions, including no religion.
It’s not Duke’s fault that the student could not tolerate being there and that she wanted to leave, but she may have her own reasons for how she feels. I’m not blaming her for that either. It’s not a good fit for her, but other schools may be. Likewise, another Jewish student may be perfectly happy at Duke.</p>
She may want to think about what she might say but not to stress . Sometimes it’s a student calling and a casual call. Still she should be polite but not feel intimated.</p>