In my view, most HS kids who think they want to be in investment banking/MBB are drawn to it because they think they will get rich. That’s it. That’s the draw.
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The answer will be I spent a lot of time in Europe during the summers in the following countries….i did academic summer programs in Europe at….. My favorite summer program was at Bocconi.
Yeah he will be very interested in some of these programs. My only concern would be he is non-EU and that might cause problems with placement.
You are looking for value with a big ‘oomph’ in placement but then you worry that being an American overseas won’t deliver that oomph.
Personally I think you’ve got to want the experience.
Given it’s all a risk and you won’t know until four years, it seems an awfully big step to take - unless the student wants to take that step.
In that case it’s worth it.
In essence, take out the hopes for career outcome.
What collegiate experience does the student truly want ? Maybe that should be the focus ? Four years is a long long time to choose a school for a reason that might not pan out vs. I’d love the experience.
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Correct I am looking for value. My son currently is looking to spend time in Europe. So I don’t see an issue there.
I am not looking for an immediate “oomph” in placement. I am in it for the long haul. The “oomph” can come after the masters programs, or on the second job..
My fear is a no placement situation or a hard time finding employment. As long as he is placed in a decent spot or gets a spot at a good American university to do a masters we are good.
But I have heard some no employment stories. I would love to hear from some nonEY students that did these programs and were satisfied with the outcome. I want to hear yes, do it stories. That’s what is missing.
Personally I think the 3 countries in 3 years at a minimum will set my son apart if he were to apply to graduate school in the US.
Job prospects upon completion and before masters remain unclear
For grad school here - you can go to name your directional like N Illinois, have a solid job and go to Harvard.
My College of Charleston daughter is in a two year ‘job’ program. If she takes the GMAT and crushed it, along with her top grades and solid work background this next two years, she could (doesn’t mean she would) get into any MBA program in the country. That’s not her pursuit but just noting it wouldn’t be shocking. Her degree was in social science. Her industry is education.
Harvard’s MBA class if 930 is represented by 269 colleges. Think about that …not sure if I could even name 269 colleges.
You are correct - work experience will impact grad admissions. Colleges don’t place. Like my kids, yours will have to hustle. Cornell until recently posted the how did they find the job and overwhelmingly it was company websites and social - likely indeed and LinkedIn. Comparatively, far less percentage wise found their jobs via the school.
I wish there was an assurance for you.
But no matter what anyone will say - there isn’t - even from the creme de la creme. 3 countries is great - but so is SUNY Oswego with a marketing job at Corning or management development job at Wegman’s (grocery store chain).
I wish you luck in finding what you seek.
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It’s actually three tiers: Scottish students get to go tuition free in Scotland (as opposed to paying tuition at English universities) so it’s ultra-selective for them. It’s highly selective for the rest of the U.K. sort of like Durham (posh students who didn’t get into Oxbridge) with the added aura of royal connections (William & Kate) and a nicer area than NE England. Then you have the Americans who pay for the rest of them and have much less stringent admission standards (and I’d guess make up much of the bottom half of the class).
I also don’t think UCAS tariffs tell the whole story, my niece with the three A*s didn’t even apply to Oxbridge because one of her A levels was “non-core” for her subject (IIRC it was art) and environmental science is a more specialized degree so not an Oxbridge subject. Same for my nephew (doing maths, physics and geography when you need to do chemistry if you want to be considered for Oxbridge). I don’t think St Andrews is necessarily quite so picky about subject choice.
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So confused. You claim that other kids are ahead academically because they did programs over the summer….and yet your kids interest in studying in Europe is predicated on the summer programs he did at several universities in Europe?
It’s a terrible answer for a job interview regardless.
You might consider a college consultant. I usually think they are a ripoff but your family might benefit from one.
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I think that most placement offices at most colleges tend to have jobs in their cities or states. Do they have listing for jobs in other states, for the government, in NYC? Sure, but the majority of listings at Ohio State are going to be in Ohio because that’s where most grads want to live.
My daughter went to school in florida and her first job was in Florida. She applied to a big national company but the office that got her resume was in Orlando. She said she was interest in traffic and they said “Oh, that’s out of the West Palm office” and sent her resume to that office. Now she works for them in Denver (transferred). Could she have, on her own, applied to one of their offices in AZ or CA or ID? Yes, but she couldn’t sit back and expect the placement office to locate jobs in those areas for her.
I think your child is going to have to work a little harder to find a job in the US after going to school in Europe. Will the school post the jobs if the employer gets the info to the placement office? Sure. Will the placement office actively search for listings in Oklahoma or California or Texas? I doubt it, just like the placement office at U of Delaware isn’t going to focus on getting listings in Idaho or Utah.
So many initial job interviews are now done by zoom that it doesn’t matter where people are. My SIL just applied for a job and had the initial interview while he was on Nat’l Guard duty in the desert in CA, he lives in TN, and the job is in TX (don’t know where the interviewer was located). It’s a different world now. He happens to be going to grad school online at a Texas school, but that is just a coincidence that this job is in TX as SIL never ‘attends’ class in TX (and my daughter doesn’t particularly want to live in TX).
Other kids did summer classes for credit at the local high school. Albegra, Geomtery, Chemistry. These was intense with many hours of work being done daily as the full years curriculum had to be covered in a short period of time. There was homework, quizzes, tests and grades. With the grade appearing on the transcript.
My son did a non credit program for two weeks in England last year and three week language immersion program in Germany. None of it was for credit. Both were largely for fun. Little studying happened in these programs. I sent him largely to experience living abroad and become independent. And network with other kids that have similar interests.
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I have a couple of friends/acquaintances who have sent their kids to school in Europe/Canada. Those that studied in the UK (some are still at university) ended up finding work in the UK and staying (2 had British parents although they grew up in the US - 1 didn’t have any ties). The kids studying in Canada are at McGill - we send a few kids there every year and my own S24 considered it. I can’t comment on their job situation - most are still students. My kids have a good friend that has been studying at Ghent for international relations (the program is in English). He has traveled all over the world during his time there, but , once again, despite growing up in the US he has one German (?) parent and family still in Europe. Finally, a good family friend’s daughter did her vet program in Ireland (zero family ties outside the US) because it was much cheaper. She had no trouble getting a vet job here in the US. In terms of “placement” - no college, here or in Europe, “places” your kid. They have career services in the US, and some campus recruiting, but kids are responsible for finding their own job(s) - no one is going to hand it to them regardless of how prestigious (or not) the school is.
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Half the adcoms who read your son’s application will say “Bravo, a kid following his own interests (learning for fun, language immersion, “little studying”) to Europe, and half will say “Pay for Play, affluent family curating their kid’s live”. And nobody can predict which adcom will have which reaction.
My point is don’t overplay the difference between a kid taking chemistry over the summer, living at home, and a kid taking “networking overseas with kids with similar interests”. Because the adcom’s are likely not going to see the difference (nor will they care). Summer travel is fantastic- as is working at a yogurt store, taking care of an elderly family member, washing cars, lifeguarding at the town pool, etc. Paid travel programs will not move the needle either in the US or overseas, except to subliminally check the “these are full pay parents” box.
But I’m curious- you’ve worked at places like Goldman. Why not call in a favor and ask a former colleague to set you up with a 30 minute phone call with the recruiter who handles LSE, Bocconi, Dublin, etc. and have THEM explain to you how an American kid can help themselves in the hiring process? Why leave it to a bunch of strangers on the internet when you’ve got “juice” as the kids like to say? Hear it from the horse’s mouth- “It’s too hard hiring an American with a European degree. They want to live in London, not Manchester– or Paris and not Lyon.” OR- we love hiring American kids. They are well traveled and cosmopolitan and that’s what we look for.”
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Honestly, this is unimpressive - more impressive would have been a summer job or volunteer type activity. There is more to a college app than school, school, school.
Chemistry is the odd one there. Students doing math summer school to move ahead, particularly those who have been in non-advanced middle school streams but willing and able to reach calculus by senior year, is not uncommon.
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Absolutely, and a useful clarification.
They definitely don’t. As you point out, there can be different subject requirements, recommendations, or just observed practices. Sometimes there are special admissions exams. Obviously at some universities there are interviews (which are real, substantive interviews conducted by the tutors in the course). And so on.
So I definitely do not think St Andrews is actually a harder admit than Oxbridge whenever the Guardian table shows a course having a higher entry tariff.
But I do think it is fair to conclude that such a St Andrews course is at least high up overall in terms of selectivity for UK applicants, even more so Scottish.
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Random anecdote, but the private HS my S24 attended had an associated middle school, and advanced science students would do the first level of HS Physics in 8th grade, then Chem in 9th, and Bio in 10th. They would then be able to do advanced courses in any for 11th and 12th.
But something over half their 9th grade classes, including my S24, came out of different K-8 systems.
So, it was very common for such kids–again including my S24–to do Physics in 9th, then take Chem over the summer between 9th and 10th. That then put them on track to do Bio in 10th with the kids who had come up through the associated middle school, and whatever advanced science classes they liked in 11th and 12th.
Anyway, all this is very specific to the way that particular HS/MS does its science tracks. But it was actually similar to what you (rightly) described as being more common with math.
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The assumption though is we are doing it to move the needle for admissions. We are only doing it provide our children the experience and genuinely enjoy what they are doing. My daughter went to Iceland during the summer because she like horses and hiking.
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Yes I am working on this. But the kids I know that are from Europe and went to school from in Europe also grew up there. So they don’t adequately represent my sons scenario.
This is very good to know and the kind of thing I was looking to hear. Doesn’t help for my son but my daughter wants to be a vet. She is younger. But we are looking into Trinity College in Ireland for my son.
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There are a few of us here on CC who have children who are veterinarians. My older daughter just got her DVM this past May and is working as a vet.
Depending upon what state you live in, one option might be to look at an in-state DVM program. If you live in a WICHE state, there are a few WICHE DVM programs. For other students, one option is to just pay full price at a private program. Another is to move after getting a bachelor’s degree, work for a year or two to establish residency, and then apply. It is relatively common for students to work for a year or two after getting a bachelor’s degree before applying to graduate programs.
All of this might however be a good topic for a different thread when the time comes.
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