Colleges with good Freshman Philosophy courses

College Search & Lists
21

<p>You’re unlikely to find “good” colleges that don’t require you to live on campus freshman year. In fact, many “elite” residential colleges require it for all 4 years because students who live off campus are less involved, whether in academics or extracurriculars. Plus you’d be wasting all that networking potential. You’ll have plenty of time learning how to go grocery shopping or taking the garbage out, once you’ve graduated and are living in your own apt. Take it from an adult, those aren’t all what they’re cracked up to be :stuck_out_tongue: (and if you add ironing, then, you have a perfect trifecta!)</p>

<p>You’ll need to make a balanced list, with safeties (2 schools you’re SURE you can get into, like, and can afford), matches (3-5 schools where your stats place you around the top 25% mark, with admission rates above 30% that you like and can afford). Then only you add these schools your parents love, like Harvard, Yale, etc. Your odds of getting into these schools as an international are under 1 in 20 (= 19/20 probabilities to be rejected, regardless of qualifications, because kids have done so much). Unlike in many countries, it doesn’t depend on scores only. HOlistic means that your application is read and whatever strikes the reader leads to a committee decision or not. Often, there’s often one reader, especially at schools that receives thousands and thousands of applications, so you better stand out. The criteria are so numerous that it’s impossible to predict who will get in (see “andison” and his story).
So your time is better spent building ‘from the bottom up’.
Talk with your parents about how much they’re willing to spend on your education. The only school where that criterion will not matter are Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Amherst, MIT, and Dartmouth (avoid Dartmouth if you don’t enjoy getting drunk). Everywhere else, if you don’t need financial aid, it’ll be a HUGE help. The more aid you need, the more competitive you need to be.
Some women’s colleges are part of a consortium, like Barnard, Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke, Wellesley, Agnes Scott. Also, being in a big city mitigates the fact you may be in class with women only.
Start reading the Fiske Guide or Insider’s Guide to the colleges or Princeton Review’s best colleges to see what atmosphere you’re interested in.</p>

22

<p>Thank you! I’ve decided to put Reed, UChicago and Swarthmore part of my choices. Maybe it does sound a bit weird, but I’m quite geared towards modern-like, big campuses. (I guess it attracts me more I guess, for example UChicago). I don’t know if that sounds weird though. My parents don’t really enjoy talking about my future as much as I do, but I am working hard for all my examinations so that they will let me go; they are afraid I am not independent enough. </p>

<p>I do dream of getting into Yale, and Ivy Leagues, but I also know that the chances are utterly slim. Thus, I’d like to have at least one “safe” college that provides good-to-excellent Philosophy freshman courses. I realise that Reed and Swarthmore are both exceptional and great colleges-- but frankly, I do admit that it’s not very eye-catching. They seem quite dull and rustic. Any other “safe” colleges as well? Somewhere with low crime rates would be nice, but (sub)urban. Thanks for all the help! </p>

<p>P.S. Is murder a sport in Chicago?</p>

23

<p>Reed, Swarthmore, and Chicago do not have “modern-like, big campuses”. They are all compact enough that you would always walk to classes, meals, and dorms in all kinds of weather. The predominant architecture at these 3 schools is in traditional, collegiate styles. Google for some images to get some idea. Examples:
[Photographer</a> paints UChicago in new light | The University of Chicago](<a href=“Page Not Found | University of Chicago”>Photographer paints UChicago in new light | University of Chicago News)</p>

<p>Chicago and Swarthmore are as selective as some of the Ivies. All 3 are in urban/suburban (not rustic) settings. The University of Chicago campus is safe enough, but crime is a concern in some of the neighboring areas (as it is in cities throughout much of the USA).</p>

24

<p>FTDreamer: don’t choose yet. You’re not a senior yet. So, what this year should be dedicated to is finding <em>as many schools as possible</em> that you like, broadly speaking. What you do for this is buy a guide such as Fiske Guide or Insider’s Guide to the colleges or Princeton Review’s best colleges (or all three) and read through them, putting post-its next to each school you like. Then each day gather your collection of schools, go online and find the “join the mailing list” or the “request information” form, fill it out, and wait for the (free) brochures to get to you. If they let you write something at the end of the form, systematically ask about the philosophy program.
Forget about what your parents say or what schools everyone’s heard of or whatever. At this point it’s about finding the schools that you may find intriguing, awesome, or unbelievable. Schools where you can picture yourself. Schools that offer a program or feature you like (yes, even if it’s just one).
You’ll need two cardboard boxes for the next step.
When viewbooks start arriving, make three piles: absolutely not’s (those go into recycling); hmmm?'s; and OMG LOVE IT’s. After you’ve read them and placed them in the box, let them sit there. When the box is full, start reading again with pen in hand (write what you really like about each in a small notebook - one page, one school, your comments) and reposition into Hmmm? or OMGLOVEIT accordingly. </p>

<p>Some of your comments above show that you haven’t done this yet and it’s an important first step (mostly for sophomores and juniors).</p>

<p>Note that a “big campus” in the US typically include at least 100 or 200 acres, with lots of green space (“the quad”), sometimes an arboretum, and a lot of buildings that can only be reached on foot or by bike. Some campuses are like little towns. Most students never leave campus, or only rarely, because they find everything they need. There is a “collegiate style” - a sort of revival Gothic or colonial style - at many prestigious campuses. Bricks and stones are typical. Newer campuses may have a more eclectic style and some may be built in the concrete/pseudo modern style. But choosing a college on its style should come after you’ve done all the groundwork, first.</p>

25

<p>Thanks a bunch. I am going to try to get my hands on some of the college review books today and do as you recommended. </p>

<p>I am really excited (and nervous) and my SAT this week and my ACT the following week. I really do hope I do well! Despite of the results, I will continue trying until the end of next year and submit my best scores. Thank you! :)</p>

26

<p>Update: I bought CollegeBoard’s 2014 College Handbook. Is it okay?</p>

27

<p>I am still unable to find a post delete option, so I have to write another post (sorry). Basically, I have searched up racial issues in states (Racism seems to be a rather big issue in Texas). I would love to know of your opinions on states that are the most LGBT-friendly, positive towards Asians, African-Americans, and non-Caucasian immigrants.</p>

28

<p>It’s good you are going to read up on colleges. But…Did you actually READ what we wrote above? </p>

<p>In case you forgot:

</p>

<p>Sounds like you went online, thought “Oh I’ll buy a book that has the word ‘college’ in it and that looks big, and I’ll totally disregard the information that has been given to me so far”. o_O</p>

<p>The book you bought has not been mentioned once (nor is it mentioned on CC in our advice to students) because it is meant for professional use. It’s over 2,200 pages long and basically un-usable by a student. You’ll have objective information (which can be easily found online through the CDS or collegedata - <-same thing, just different presentation) but nothing about vibe and fit, which are crucial, especially for international students.
For instance, you’ll know whether a college has a philosophy dept. You won’t know whether the atmosphere at the college is supportive for philosophy majors, what activities exist, what the classes are like (a philosophy lecture is totally different from a philosophy seminar), etc. You won’t know what people do out of class, what activities are popular, whether you’re supposed to wear a tie or most people see nothing wrong with going to class in flip flops, what a typical Saturday is like for them (wake up from drunken stupor, pregame/tailgate, game, dinner, pre-party, party? Or brunch, ultimate frisbee game, play rehearsal, dinner, hang out at downtown cafe, party?)</p>

<p>Please take time to read the posts above again, carefully. Look at the schools that were cited, go to their websites, one by one. Take notes if necessary.</p>

<p>States don’t matter. What matters is the college. Each college has its own culture. New York State is very open to people of diverse ethnic backgrounds and regarding sexual orientation, but if you attend Houghton you won’t find a college where it’s cool to be gay just because it’s in NYS. Arkansas is the opposite, a very conservative State with a very religious mindset, but attend Hendrix and you’ll have a very open, accepting college. That’s why “fit” matters.</p>

29

<p>To delete, you need to click “Edit”; at the bottom of the “edit” version, there’ll be a box you can check (tick) that states “delete” . You have a time limit on being able to do that, I think (20mn?)</p>

30

<p>I would also say it’s somewhat incorrect to say that racism is a particularly big issue in any one state - any more than others, anyway. Racism takes different forms in different states. I think Southern U.S. states are more likely to be labeled as racist or thought of as racist; they aren’t necessarily more racist than other states, though. Also, like MYOS1634 said, the college is the important part. Most colleges are pretty liberal places, and colleges like Rice (in Texas) or Emory (in Georgia) are pretty diverse places.</p>

<p>In any case, as an international student if you are looking for affordable tuition or financial aid, large flagship public universities like Rutgers and Berkeley probably shouldn’t be on your list. Most of those universities aren’t need-blind for international students (which means that your ability to pay is taken into account when they decide whether to admit you), and most also do not offer much if any financial aid to international students. The most selective colleges in the United States are the ones who offer those perks to internationals, but you have rightfully concluded that they are difficult to get into.</p>

<p>Also, note that religious affiliation at American colleges may function differently. For example, Georgetown is affiliated with the Catholic church (as is Notre Dame), but neither school is particularly religious and you don’t have to be Catholic to attend either. There are some universities (like Brigham Young or Liberty University) that are very religious in nature, but just because a college is affiliated with a church doesn’t mean the environment is tense. That’s especially true for many universities associated with the Catholic church, particularly Jesuit institutions.</p>

31

<p>I did read what was written above, but I read it rather hastily and just dashed out and bought a College Handbook that I thought would’ve helped. Anyway, I have gotten my hands on all three guides recommended and currently doing the Insider’s Quiz. Thanks!</p>

32

<p>Oh wow! You sure don’t waste time :slight_smile: - Which is a good thing. :slight_smile:
What does the “Insider’s Quiz” tell you?
These books will be your first guides to give you an indication of “what it’s like” at each college. They’ll help you figure out whether you want a driven or relaxed atmosphere, preprofessional or intellectual students, a core curriculum or none…</p>

33

<p>Urgent: Apparently my Admission ID had a mistake. It does not include my middle name, which actually shows at the last section of my ID card. Will this affect me severely? The centre is closed right now and my exam testing is tomorrow!</p>

<p>The Insider’s Quiz said a Big State college would be suitable for me. :)</p>

34

<p>Is “University of Washington” considered a good “safety” school? I might put it as one.</p>

35

<p>^ Check to see if the University of Washington offers need-based aid to internationals. Many state universities do not. The relevant section of their Common Data Set (H6) is completely blank. Total COA for OOS students is over $40K … and if you can’t afford it, it’s not a safety.</p>

36

<p>A problem is that typically big state universities don’t have financial aid for international students. You can look into the Honors Programs that come with big scholarships though. Pitt has one, UAlabama also.</p>

<p>Another problem I see is that, since you’re very young, your parents might not want to send you to an experience that requires one to be very autonomous as an 18 year old - it’s very easy to fall through the cracks in a university with 35,000 or 45,000 students.</p>

<p>And I really don’t see “philosophy” and “big state u” together :slight_smile: but I know there are fantastic philosophy depts there - it’s just that the rest of the experience doesn’t match what I imagine a philosophy student to be. For instance, I imagine a philosophy student to be reflexive and loving to read so I have a hard time reconciling this with rah-rah all-day tailgating :). Objectively though those aren’t mutually exclusive. :)</p>

37

<p>I have discussed with my parents yesterday night, and we all have decided that (99% likely) we would not need financial aid. However, they find the most important criteria being my enjoyment of the college and city.</p>

<p>I love big cities, but not overly expensive-- New York, for instance. I do not intend to be part of a “Greek Lifestyle” community either. My relatives may be renting an apartment nearby, so it would be great to have apartments/houses nearby within the city. (big or small, as long as its nice!) I might be having a part-time job, if need be. </p>

<p>I’m going to settle down and continue reading more college books! Anymore advice/tips on admission/colleges/cities would be highly appreciated. Thank you! :)</p>

38

<p>

</p>

<p>That is a naive pov.</p>

<p>Within the top 15 PL programs, almost half are offered by state Unis: Rutgers, Michigan, Cal Berkeley, Penn State, UC San Diego, SUNY-Bing, Pitt (well, quasi public)…</p>

<p>btw: all of those publics are rated over Harvard for PL. And caveat emptor: PL at Cal has some of the most rigorous grading at the school – lower GPA than some premed majors.</p>

39

<p>@Bluebayou, I wasn’t talking about the philosophy dept (re-read the discussion). I was commenting on the fact the Insider’s Guide Quiz gave “big state u” as a result for OP. Questions are similar to “what high school stereotype would best describe you” or “what will your dream job be” or “what would varsity athletics be like at your ideal school”.
Big State U answers are: I’m an athlete, I want everyone to have heard of my college, if I meet my professor on my way to class we’d talk about the big game last weekend, 10 years from now on weekends I’ll be cheering for my Alma Mater.
And for a 15 year old who’s intellectual enough to like philosophy, I would expect answers like: I’m an intellectual, my college is in a quintessential college town, when I meet my professor on my way to class we talk about the intense argument about Kant that took place between the 10 students that make up the class, 10 years from now on weekends I’ll be reading books in a coffee shop.
(Those are all from the actual quiz. Fiske has one, too.)
In addition, I think the programs you’re referring to are the graduate programs, although there’s an approximation for undergrads based on those, but they necessarily neglect LACs which are philosophy-friendly. Once again, I don’t refer just to the classes, but to outside interactions that involve intellectual pursuits and student “vibe”. </p>

<p>@FullTimeDreamer:
Not needing financial aid as an international applicant is a godsend because the competition is much, much less severe than for students who need financial aid. You’ll have to be very sure your parents can pay full price though, because it’s really very expensive (some public universities will cost $45,000 to $50,000 a year).</p>

<p>Big cities which aren’t crazy expensive (from okay to close to crazy): Minneapolis-St Paul, Tempe, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Portland, Seattle, New Orleans, Chicago, San Diego, Boston* … Of course, cities are expensive. And in the US, many colleges were built away from cities so that youth would not get corrupted by urban vices :wink: so, even though what used to be a countryside may now be within city limits, there are still many colleges in small towns and in “idyllic rural” Americana.
Better than big cities: college towns :slight_smile: - cities created around the university, where everything or almost everything caters to the students. Big enough to have anything you need, including great coffee shops, restaurants, concert venues, bookstores, movie theaters, etc, but small enough to be travelled by bike and not feel too impersonal (or dangerous). In my opinion, the ideal situation even for adults but I’m totally biased :stuck_out_tongue: - I like some big cities too (except for the cost).</p>

<ul>
<li>but lots of colleges near Boston, like Amherst or Clark or UMass or Mount Holyoke or Holy Cross.</li>
</ul>

40

<p>

</p>

<p>yeah, I read it, but I still think it is a naive pov. The PL dept at Cal-Berkely, for example, is plenty isolated. They sit around philosophizing their body parts as well as the universe and most things inside and outside thereof. Small classes. Faculty that hates all sports. </p>

<p>Pl couldn’t be farther removed (vibe wise) from engineering or the biz program.</p>