<p>Again, she said it was the reaction, not the imagery. They could have acknowledged that this was not the usual place to hold sessions. At the least, when it was brought up, they could have at least shown an awareness that a big stained glass image of Jesus was, duh, a Christian image. It was the insensitivity, not the image itself.</p>
<p>And I would have the same reaction if there were fliers for something Jewish. If it’s a public school, then it truly should be (and appear) neutral when it comes to religion.</p>
<p>Remember when it was fun to read this thread? All the silly and perhaps contentious viseral reactions that made no sense to a parent? How not seeing a Starbucks logo by the time you parked meant no interest in visiting the campus anymore? Or how the welcome sign with your name in the parking lot freaked some people out? That a 17 yr old or parent had a reaction to stained glass is normal, just like a reaction to coke vs pepsi in the dining halls caused someone not to apply to a particular college. Come on, lighten up people!</p>
<p>I am a Jew as well, and I often feel other Jews react too strongly to this stuff – carols at Christmas in public schools when they’re beautiful songs, etc.</p>
<p>But this is a high school kid wanting to be comfortable. And the chapel is probably beautiful and not a bad place to have an info session, but I agree that it is completely insensitive not to be aware of the fact that there is religious iconography. And this isn’t just applicable to Jews, but to Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists. </p>
<p>We do not have a state religion in the US, though sometimes people act as if we do. I am an atheist and personally don’t mind Jesus iconography, but the lack of sensitivity that not everyone is Christian is an indication that a school would not be an appropriate choice for someone who self-identifies as something different. And it might be a bad choice for a very progressive Christian as well.</p>
<p>In contrast at Williams the Jewish center is across from admissions and a huge admissions session was held there, although only 10% of students are Jewish. Admissions did comment that it was the closest large room and they didn’t want to make families troop all over campus. It was a simple room with a wooden floor, folding chairs and no iconography at all. It did give the Admissions folks a chance to talk about all the religious organizations and chapels on campus. The Thompson Cathedral is the most beautiful building on campus. I heard my S sing Bach there.</p>
<p>And to compare a menorah to Christ is just silly. For much of Christianity’s history anti-semitism was part of the theology. </p>
<p>The point that UVA is a public institution is at the heart of it. At Georgetown, this might have been perfectly appropriate.</p>
<p>Maya - I totally understand your d’s reaction. I’m not Jewish, but that was insensitive. The admissions person should have said upfront "we are holding this information session here due to lack of space elsewhere. As you may note, this is a non-denominational chapel, with Christian iconography. For those Christians in the group, this is a place at where you may want to spend some time, in prayer or reflection or whatever. For those of you whom are not Christians, I assure you that there are many varied groups on campus (Hillel House or…) where you may seek a connection or spiritual guidance. I’d be happy to discuss the locations/availability of those other organizations at the conclusion of this presentation. " </p>
<p>The fact that the Admissions Counselor just chose to ‘ignore’ the fact that he or she was giving an information presentation in a chapel was just ignorant (in my honest opinion.)</p>
<p>The last few posts support a strong argument for the separation of church and state. I fully support religious freedom and respect for others with differing beliefs, I do not expect religious symbols of one faith to be represented in public places. Chapels are found in private colleges and universities, our children chose to attend one that had a center for spiritual life that included the major religions. The philosophy of the school is that there is a great deal to learn from the religions that have been followed for centuries.</p>
<p>I completely understand maya’s D’s issue. Both D2 and D3 eliminated (different) schools from their lists for similar reasons, one being the large cross prominently displayed on the side of the dorm at a now-allegedly-secular college.</p>
<p>My son (atheist) was somewhat disturbed by all the crucifixes in the classrooms at Georgetown. I hadn’t noticed them, but since Georgetown is Jesuit, we fully accept their right to have them wherever they like. We were actually both even more disturbed by the banners with exhortations for good thoughts around campus. They seemed creepy.</p>
<p>I agree the UVA thing was a little insensitive and the response more than that.</p>
<p>Not trying to change the subject or anything----</p>
<p>We attended the information session at Northwestern, and they had a slide show playing while we were waiting to get started. Based on the slide show, you might have thought you were in an information session for a summer camp, not a university near Chicago. Finally, they showed a picture with some snow in it. If they hadn’t, I’m not sure I would have believed anything else they said.</p>
<p>With my sons being a year apart, I’ve been on 19 different tours over the last two years and only two stick out negatively. At Northeastern U in Boston, the woman running the info session kept repeating the same mantra in a shrill voice as people filed into the large auditorium, " go to the top row and move to the end, go to the top row and move to the end." If you’re asking a family to spend $200 K or more for an education, I think you might want to not treat them like kindergartners or a prison guard…The tour guide was not really knowledgeable about the school and it left a sour taste for most of the tourees…
At Harvard, they were extremely disorganized. During winter break in February when you’d expect a much larger crowd ( they don’t preregister or record names) and it was obvious they were overbooked, they had everybody file into one hall, get seated and then decided to move everyone to another location…They had two students discuss their majors and when one was asked about her four courses, she had a Rick Perry moment remembering three of them but drew a blank on the 4th one…Instead of making one up, she kept giggling…Not real impressive.</p>
<p>“It sounds like it wasn’t the artwork itself but their utter obliviousness that yes, Jesus is a Christian symbol, and no, that means the chapel is not non-denominational. I don’t know that judging a school by the tour guide’s attitude is fair, but that’s another issue.”</p>
<p>Actually, it was an admin. We’d gone up to ask a question (not about the religious thing) and the issue came up. It’s exactly what you said, SanSerif, the utter obliviousness that Jesus is indeed a Christian image and the placement of the huge stained glass image at the front of the chapel makes the place feel very very non-denominational. My dd had no problem with crosses and the like at Georgetown, a Jesuit instititution where it is completely appropriate. Her problem was the idea of a public university being so clueless.</p>
<p>Steve, MA, it would only be like someone complaining about a Jewish image in a Temple if the admin had said “What Jewish imagery? This place is completely non-denominational” even though the place had a huge Jewish star and the wording of the S’hema right in the front.</p>
<p>Clearly, “non-denominational” to the admin at UVA meant “non-denominational Christian,” whereas “non-denominational” to those of us of other faiths means not having imagery, etc., of a single faith. Did anyone else hear about U of Rochester’s inter-denominational chapel, which was built on the other side of the road because of George Eastman’s explicit instructions that the campus to which he was giving such a phenomenal sum of money not have any religious buildings on it?</p>
<p>maya-
Rice’s admissions office has been, IMO end that of other Rice parents, its weak link. One parent (either anxiousmom or patsmom, I forget which) had the same reaction you did, and many of us have been sorely disappointed in their adm office for several reasons. But please, don’t write off the school because of that. Its a GREAT school, once you can get past the adm office nonsense!! :)</p>
<p>This recent dialogue about how oblivious the admin. was at UVA is disheartening. One would think that a school in the SOUTH would try really hard to be sensitive to issues of diversity. </p>
<p>As a northeasterner who had relatives in the South, I came across many incredibly engaging, warm and generous individuals, who were also completely oblivious to issues related to diversity. It wasn’t necessarily due to mean-spiritedness. Just a complete lack of awareness, a comfort with homogeneity, and a lack of exposure to differences. It made me feel welcome, yet with a sense that if I veered toward any unusual path, I could be left out at any second. When you see signs for classes like “Christian yoga” and where giant billboards are devoted to psalms used to criticize abortion, you know that if you are not white, Christian, and probably conservative, you might not fit in.</p>
<p>I can certainly understand why anyone would react negatively to the admin.'s insensitive comment. Any minority group member would understand this. It is a shame that some “majority group” members may not understand it.</p>
<p>The sensitivity to these issues should have NOTHING to do with where it is in re: the mason-dixon line. EVERYONE should be sensitive to these issues.</p>
<p>At a recent campus visit to UNC, there were large signs that had biblical quotes and anti-abortion signs in front of their student union. That was a bit shocking for my daughters. I also noticed there were not any counter-protest signs. I think this is probably a big turn-off for a large population of potential students.</p>
<p>Information sessions being held in the chapel at UVa was discussed earlier this spring on the UVa forum. A prospective student’s parent voiced their concern, as Maya54 did, and received several thoughtful replies from current Jewish students, a dean of admissions, people identifying as atheists, and others. I think many views were expressed.</p>
<p>Here is the link for anyone who is interested:</p>
<p>One thing I think is important to note here is in post #16 you will read that when someone signs up online for an information session it is clearly stated where that information session is held (ie chapel, alumni hall, Rotunda).</p>