<p>Steve, I think you may be confusing the definition of CHAPEL as it is used in non-denominational settings (public university, non-religious hospital, us army, prison, airport, etc) = room for mediation, private prayer of any denomination, etc. as opposed to the Christian definition of CHAPEL = a small room within a church. I’m assuming UVA thinks it supposedly has the former.</p>
<p>I’m Jewish and live in the south. Most of the larger buildings, with room for a lot of people, are the churches, so many non-religious events are held in them, since there are not many options elsewhere. Separation of church and state is an excellent principal, but it is economically impractical to build and maintain a large secular building to be used for occasional events, so in the south, many churches serve this function. It is also common for small schools, music lessons, after school tutoring, and other meetings to be held in the religious school classrooms during the week when they are not in use. I think, in general, the response to this is positive in many ways, as having so much empty space and utilities except on Sundays is not energy or space efficient.</p>
<p>Churches either donate the space or charge a fee to offset their maintenance costs ( electricity, utilities, cleaning). On an historic campus like UVA, there is limited land to build large buildings, so maybe the chapel serves this function as well?</p>
<p>I agree that sensitivity to applicants’ backgrounds is important and perhaps they will choose a neutral setting for visitors. However, visitors can also be aware that holding a meeting in a church does not always imply a religious event.</p>
<p>testobsessed–I am not confused, especially since there is a fairly large Jewish center right down the road from this Chapel :D. UVA doesn’t think it is either of your definitions-they use it for meeting spaces, not services, so it is a Hall.</p>
<p>Weathga’s explanation is good. On military posts, there is a Catholic mass and and interdenominational service, which would not only be Christion, but Protestant. Something I find amusing at our chapel is that after the mass, the enormous cross with Jesus on it is spun around for the interdenominatioanal service that follows.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone’s arguing that point, Pennylane. (In fact, I used to belong to the Jewish congregation in Ann Arbor that built a building with an Episcopalian congregation–look up the Genesis Project–very cool.) The point is that the Admissions representatives should be sensitive to the fact that a manifestly religious space might make some people uncomfortable (whether they are Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jainist, Jewish, atheist, pagan, or whatever). The fact that the representatives of the college don’t even seem to notice that the chapel has Christian religious iconography is really the issue.</p>
<p>I agree with being sensitive- I think it is good to know the symbols/imagery for the major world religions. I assume they do know, and that this may be a cultural perspective. Perhaps this will initiate a dialogue with the various religious and atheist groups on campus so that everyone can become more aware. </p>
<p>I guess one point I wanted to make is that the use of church buildings and also certain terminology in the south is pervasive. We are most definitely a minority here, and while it would be ideal if people were sensitive to us, we also have to learn their language and be sensitive to what they mean as well.</p>
<p>“Non-denominational” here means “non-denominational Christian” for in the south for many years, there was no need to describe it further. It is simply that many people have not had much exposure to someone of another religion and language has historical roots. It has not been easy or comfortable for us at times, but I try not to see this as insensitivity but a cultural condition. It would not serve anyone if we became offended when people had no intention of offending us. Recently people have been using a wider interfaith term, but changing language takes time.</p>
<p>I assume the college representatives are aware that the school has students from many backgrounds, however, an historical school probably has old and deep rooted traditions as well. I hope that further dialogue on this topic will lead to mutual understanding.</p>
<p>I just try to understand both sides of the situation…</p>
<p>Many public,state related schools have chapels that are used for many purposes. Examples:Wren Chapel at William and Mary and Heinz Chapel at Pitt. My graduate school ceremony at Pitt took place in Heinz Chapel. [Heinz</a> Memorial Chapel - Windows](<a href=“http://www.heinzchapel.pitt.edu/architecture/windows.html]Heinz”>http://www.heinzchapel.pitt.edu/architecture/windows.html)</p>
<p>I would have enjoyed a chapel or the Jewish center for our UVA tour as opposed to the musty auditorium we sat in waiting for the admissions rep who was over 30 minutes late.</p>
<p>For the sake of accuracy in this discussion, I don’t think the stained glass figure of Mary is the one that is featured at the alter of UVA chapel. There are several photos of it online, this one is fairly close-up, and it looks like Jesus to me: [uva</a> chapel weddings | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/dominiqueattaway/5572324630/]uva”>uva chapel weddings | dominique attaway | Flickr)</p>
<p>The Mary stained glass must be located somewhere else in the chapel.</p>
<p>Just want to chime in that each admission officer here explains the situation when we have a session in the chapel. It’s part of the “housekeeping” talk we do when we’re getting started.</p>
<p>[Back</a> in April](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/1316643-surprised-put-off.html]Back”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/1316643-surprised-put-off.html) when it was brought to my attention that someone missed that part of the talk (it wasn’t clear if it was an omission by an officer or due to a late arrival of a visitor), I made sure to revisit the topic in a staff meeting so we’d all be on the same page.</p>
<p>The following is a post from a parent on the thread that was ACTUALLY there. Please read through the post in its entirety. It was well stated and may clear up a lot of this discussion regarding UVa: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Dean J,
As a Dean at a public institution at times you are coming across a bit annoyed that perspective students ( and perhaps present students) might not be comfortable with this situation. Stating that if the student feels uncomfortable they should attend another session is missing the point. What if that is the only date they can attend? Why should a student at a public institution be made to feel uncomfortable in anyway based on religion. As a representative of this fine institution I would think you might be more understanding and not annoyed at the feelings of those which are not in the religious majority.</p>
<p>This is a good thread that many people like and it would be a shame to have the mods close it. Since the beginning this thread has been about one person’s take-away for good, for bad, for silly…but one person’s one-off. This discussion should be in a separate thread as it’s now several pages of “discussion.”</p>
<p>This discussion isn’t an annoyance at all! In fact, I was happy to run over to the chapel right after Jara (perhaps the same person as Maya?) brought this up in April and it was discussed at our very next staff meeting just to make sure we were all saying similar things during the “housekeeping” part of our sessions. </p>
<p>We don’t have the space to move the sessions during the summer, which is construction season on many college campuses. The outdoor amphitheater is available, but it’s far to hot! We’re happy to make accommodations for anyone who asks, no matter what the reason.</p>
<p>Happily, on the other side of the construction, there’s a bright, new theater for us to use in Newcomb Hall. :)</p>
<p>Dean J. An acknowledgment that a large cross (outside the building…meaning a Christian place of worship, not a non-demoninational one representing all religions) and stained glass pictures of Christian prophets make the building a Christian one was all that we were asking for. An inability to acknowledge this makes us rather concerned.</p>
<p>Our k2 recently eliminated U Del…
didn’t care for how spread out the campus is-
and
the dorms they showed us during the tour were forced triples, run down, gloomy and smelled bad.</p>
<p>Too bad because the current choice of major is offerred there.</p>
<p>fogfog - Your K2 is the same year that my S3 is. That’s too bad about UDel as I had tossed that out as a possibility here as well. I wonder why they would show forced triples on the tour? Usually they show you the nicest dorm, all spiffed up, and cleaner then any other on campus. Hopefully you had/have better luck at some of the other schools you visit this summer.</p>
<p>Dean J. I do want to say that I find your willingness to engage on these boards very admirable and that does say a lot about UVA. </p>
<p>You’ll notice no one from Rice admisions seems to do the same even though complaints about that office are common. Including complaints like mine which indicate no consideration whatsoever for prospective students. I mean we travelled by plane and spent on a hotel and you sent an e-mail confirming a session with the wrong time and you didn’t even have the decency to apologize. Shame on you Rice!</p>
<p>As long as there was so much discussion about religion because of the UVA impression- a swastika is a good thing in Hinduism (Hitler stole it). The asking about baptism of the baby of a Jewish mother with a Catholic father is expected- Catholics expect those married to those “outside the faith” to be Catholic- regardless if it is the mother or father who is noncatholic (similar to Jews assuming a baby is Jewish if the mother is- not all think that notion is right). Along with being upset re Christian/Jewish concerns it is annoying that many or even most don’t even think outside the JudeoChristian box, or only consider Muslims. Hinduism and some other religions are on a totally different page and too often people don’t even consider common threads in the C/J/M don’t exist outside of them. </p>
<p>Enough on that. Definitely the religious tone of even public colleges is worth considering- if the student body is oblivious to separating religion from secular concerns it may be too confining an atmosphere.</p>
<p>Hitler reversed the direction of the swastika, not that that matters. And in Hinduism it doesn’t usually appear on its own on a blank background.</p>
<p>This is not particularly germane to the conversation, though I find it interested.</p>
<p>I teach a population that includes many Americans of color and immigrants, and our institution certainly aware of Islam and Hinduism. We have many students with head scarves, though none with burkhas, or at least I haven’t had any.</p>
<p>It would be very noticed if we displayed favoritism to the Judeo-Christian spectrum.</p>
<p>Religion didn’t play a part in schools my kids crossed of the list.</p>
<p>D crossed off the list any school at which the student interviewers did not seem particularly educated thinking that the school should choose its best and brightest. I’m not sure this was very fair because it’s certainly possible that a brilliant scientist would have no idea of some of the things she was talking about.</p>
<p>She took a dislike to two of the women’s colleges though she really liked two and loved one. She got “bad vibes.” Don’t want to be more specific because I don’t want to say negative things about any woman’s college.</p>
<p>S ruled out Wesleyan, which he liked in many respects, because the music practice rooms seemed like a concrete bunker to him and the carpet a bit mildewed. That said, the most brilliant UG musician who is now in a competitive grad program attended Wesleyan, which shows that HS kids don’t always know what they’re talking about.</p>