<p>I know I’m going to like NYU, I’ve been living in NYU more or less my entire life and pretty much already know the whole deal. It’s really just an issue of my ambition at this point, I know Columbia is tough to get into - my questions are about how much it would help me to go to Columbia instead of NYU</p>
<p>If the goal is grad school, you should stop worrying about NYU vs. Columbia; and if the goal is just an MA (it sounds like it is; PhDs are fully-funded), then you should really stop worrying about NYU vs. Columbia. You’re on a Columbia forum, so a lot of Columbia ■■■■■■ have shown up, but the truth is you can do just as well if not better for yourself coming out of NYU (getting a passionate rec from Nagel can open many doors). /thread</p>
<p>Musil, what’s your problem? no one is doubting nyu’s prominence here, but we are bringing up reasonable information for the OP.</p>
<p>I think to the OPs latest question. How much would it help you to Columbia?</p>
<p>This is completely ‘unknowable.’ There are concrete differences - average quality of student body, average quality of resources. But then we could always pull off some anecdote about how there is some guy from NYU who went on to be a big deal in philosophy or whatever example you prefer “you can do just as well if not better” is an oft used strawman. It is not to say that greatness is the exclusive domain of one place or another, but in the end it is the OPs decision. And further, it is being okay with the fact there is no one ‘right’ answer. You will live your life however you see fit, it will go in ebbs and flows, some decisions will work out, others will not. At the least, you deserve the appropriate information. </p>
<p>The reason to consider Columbia involves a lot of intangibles that I would not just hold CU over NYU, but over a whole host of schools. A strong academic culture that will push you, one that is further defined by skepticism, by questioning. An incredible amount of diversity in your options that will allow you to switch gears, supposing you change your mind. Then there is the intimacy of campus life, the ability to feel like you’re in a small place even in the big city. Access to undergraduate funding for research, study, a bustling new undergraduate philosophy journal. And its duality merged with the presence within the city itself, its proximity to Harlem and the cynosure between disparate neighborhoods which makes you as a student cognizant of the realities of human condition. It is not necessarily one or the other the exclusive domain of Columbia, but it is a unique mix that is not NYU, Fordham or Hunter as none of the other schools can approximate the same degree of separation and yet direct interaction that Columbia fosters, of the academic and the realistic.</p>
<p>And I guess the overall reputation of Columbia’s Philosophy Department has been missing. It is one of the ‘great’ departments of the country. It was probably in its heyday in the 1970s with Arthur Danto, and trailed off a bit (there is a blue and white article that reviews this history - but the online server is down, when it is back up I’ll tack it to the thread), but is now generally considered on the way up again. Columbia for many years has published the “Journal of Philosophy” though certainly it is controversial for primarily featuring Columbia work, it is generally considered the most important philosophy journal in the country. Of the few rankings of philosophy departments, Brian Leiter of UChicago puts one out, and ranks Columbia 13 in the latest edition. In his ranking he asks professors to rank, so there is of course assumed variability - in recent years Columbia has been 9, 6 and 7th. So generally considered a top tier place.</p>
<p>There is also something important to note that there is at times significant drop off from one department to another in some universities. Rutgers for instance is a powerhouse in philosophy, but not on the map for mathematics. Whereas Columbia is one of a handful of universities where quality (if we are to stretch the word) of the departments is significantly high (it is one of only a handful of schools to be rated in every single department of the NRC survey in 1995, and more than likely when the new survey comes out the same will be true.</p>
<p>And lastly there is a very real question regarding quality of graduate instruction v. undergraduate instruction. I know many Columbia folks may not agree here (I think that’s myopia of being in a bubble or comparing yourself to true LACs) but Columbia in comparison to let’s say an NYU or a UChicago, two places I have knowledge of, heavily favors instruction of undergraduates over graduates in the arts&sciences departments. As much has been confirmed by speaking with professors at Columbia and these other schools. Folks at UChicago being so honest as to say - the undergrads are there, but they don’t ask us to really care. So you do have to draw a significant distinction.</p>
<p>I think Musil that your assertion that one could do better at NYU is not false. Indeed we could find many examples. But if we were to replicate the experiment many times over - I would argue that Columbia would give you a significant advantage in terms of graduate admissions, the job market, and the most bold claim that I make and often make on here: it will prepare you for the world just about as good as any education out there. this is due to the certain intangibles of its unique location, academic spirit and quality of its faculty across the board. I would as I said hold that over many schools. I am not ■■■■■■■■ this. It is my opinion. And I hope the OP listens and asks similar questions of NYU and on the NYU board. I only wish I were a Philo student to give more than a few classes knowledge. I’ve asked a friend who is now doing graduate work in philosophy at Yale for her opinion, if I get something, I will add it to the thread.</p>
<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you. That was actually very helpful. I think in all of this I lost sight of the fact that my major is not the only subject in which I want to excel, and I am back on the applying for transfer train (I do waver with an absurd frequency but I think this is a crystallizing revelation). </p>
<p>And yes I do grow tired of the “you can succeed anywhere” response, I understand that not being at Columbia doesn’t mean I won’t succeed as well as if I were - but there is the reality that it probably increases my chances.</p>
<p>BTW, you might consider your specific interests in philosophy. Columbia’s Philosophy Department emphasizes preparing its undergraduate majors in a wide range of fields within philosophy. However, if you have in mind a specific area to study, you might look into the faculty of each department and their respective areas of specialization. I know that political philosophy at Columbia is pretty weak (you’ll have a better selection of political philosophy courses in the political science department). This may change with Moody-Adams coming in - if she will be teaching. Columbia seems particularly strong in ethics, moral philosophy, philosophy of mind, and philosophy of science. If you’re interested in ancient philosophy, you might also look at the classics department.</p>
<p>they also do a lot more drugs at nyu. that’s good for philosophy.</p>
<p>I think I’m more interested in ethics, but I also haven’t looked into epistemology or any of that yet. But I imagine ethics would be my field of interest - and yes I’m pretty decided on the whole apply to Columbia thing, but I still appreciate any insight into how the departments compare.</p>
<p>If you’re interested in ethics, then I would recommend staying at NYU. Particularly because they have David Velleman and Thomas Nagel, who are pretty well-known in the field of ethics.</p>
<p>I can’t really get a lot of information on this but since this threat seems to have a lot of people who know about both columbia, philosophy, and columbia’s department, this might be a good place to ask.</p>
<p>I’m wondering what the deal is with the terminal masters program for philosophy at columbia. It’s pretty rare that a phd program offers this for philosophy, especilly at the top places like columbia. From what I undestand, columbia has a reputation of instituing “cash cow” masters programs that are much less competitive to get into than the other schools/programs at the school. For example I’ve heard that many masters programs will have 80% acceptance rates. even if it is somewhere between that and 50 that would seem pretty unselective. I’m not sure if this stereotype of Columbia is true, but, if it is, my suspicion is that perhaps this is what the terminal masters for philosophy might be. </p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about this program? how competitive is it? is it mostly just to get revenues to pay for the scholarships for the phd kids?</p>
<p>“understand that, but if I can go to NYU without paying tuition (probably a good thing if I’m considering graduate school and want some help paying for it) - i might have to get over the difference in student quality.”</p>
<p>it’s NYU. they have some of the stingiest financial aid in the country. it’s a great school, but it’s incredibly expensive.</p>
<p>^ NYU welcomes with open arm kids from families eligible for the Pell Grant… helps if these kids are URMs who live in the city–in which case they would be eligible for the NYS Tuition Assistance Program and the Academic Competitiveness Scholarship. And, it wouldn’t take much additional effort to rake in a few hundred dollars here and there from independent organizations. Add that all on top of a 25k “Merit” scholarship, and you’re good to go.</p>
<p>Of course, just about everyone else bleeds out, but it’s comforting to know that NYU is affordable to accomplished young men and women from the neediest families.</p>
<p>“But applying to NYU (undergrad) on that basis is like applying to NYU or Columbia because they have highly-ranked law or medical schools”</p>
<p>^ Well, “law” and “medicine,” their practice, aren’t undergraduate disciplines.</p>
<p>bball101, one could generalize that even Ph.D. programs for the humanities are cash cow scams given how competitive the academic market has become–I’d like to live a life of the mind, just not while drowning in debt, in abject poverty.</p>
<p>Ask yourself what you could possibly do with an M.Phil from Columbia–teach a senior elective in symbolic logic to prep school brats?</p>
<p>^^You have no idea what you’re talking about</p>