<p>I realized that I would get a negative reaction if I wrote about my experiences living in the north vs. the south. I’m just writing what I have experienced. It’s very noticeable when I travel back and forth, as I do fairly often. Of course it’s not universally true, but it’s pretty apparent. I did forget to add that I’ve found people ARE great once you get to know them.</p>
<p>Lots of our children seem to choose their colleges on the basis of how friendly the campus seems when they visit, either on college tours or on accepted students days. We certainly saw this when Frazzled kids visited schools. At some schools, other students (both current and prospective students) pretty much ignored them, while at others, they came away with several new friends.</p>
<p>Sometimes there can be dramatic differences in friendliness on campuses a student visits on the same day because they are in close proximity. I can imagine that for every student who decides Princeton is snobby and feels welcome at the honors college at Rutgers, there is another one who visits Rutgers after getting a merit scholarship, cannot imagine fitting in among the students they see (many will remind them of high school classmates who shunned the “nerds”), and who would gladly pay full freight at Princeton, and not just for the prestige of the Princeton degree.</p>
<p>And, even a “friendly” campus or one in a “friendly” part of the country can seem unwelcoming if a student elects to go through Greek rush (or, at Princeton, Bicker) and has a bad experience.</p>
<p>Also - I don’t know about whether Princeton would have anti-Asian sentiment, but I have noticed that many students from our area who had friends from several different ethnic groups in high school, have tended to hang out in self-segregated groups in college. </p>
<p>I do not know whether groups tend to self-segregate at Princeton, but I have heard this complaint about other elite schools with sizeable Asian (or Jewish, or African American) populations and I imagine that this could be disappointing to students who think they are choosing a diverse school, only to find possibilities for friendships largely limited to others “like themselves.”</p>
<p>I grew up in PA and went to college in PA. However, my school was largely populated by kids from northern NJ. There was a noticeable cultural distinction and the NJers viewed me as slightly different. For example, a friend once told me that early on he had thought I was a ditz because I smiled and said hello to everyone while walking around campus, whether I knew them or not. NJ folks have more of a city mentality about that, ie. you don’t necessarily greet strangers you encounter. Funny, because I have a walking partner originally from PA who greets everyone we meet on the sidewalk of our NJ suburb. They look confused, and you can just see the wheels turning. They either get suspicious, or they rack their brains trying to figure out whether they should know her. It’s hysterical.</p>
<p>As an adult, I moved to NJ after having lived in another country and in the midwest. IMO NJ is less friendly and polite than other places. My husband, who did not grow up in the US, now travels for business around the country and has the same impression. D goes to school in CA and says people there are nicer. Also, she said the sarcastic style of humor she developed growing up in NJ does not work there and comes off as mean. Here it’s accepted and funny.</p>
<p>As for Princeton, D did an overnight there and did not like the feel of the social life. Certainly, the eating clubs epitomize classist snobbery. One of S’s best friends attended and complained about the social life (he’s Asian, btw). The area around Princeton is definitely snobby in a new money sort of way. For example, the residents of the neighboring town of West Windsor mildly disdain their less monied Plainsboro counterparts with whom they share public services and schools. My D belonged to an organization which mostly had students from this municipality, and she told me that the kids from the district’s middle school in West Windsor really looked down on the kids from the middle school that served the Plainsboro section. A similar socio-economic division exists with nearby Monroe and Jamesburg, who also share schools. In the November election, voters approved the 3 different sections of Princeton to share municipal services. This was likely blocked in the past for socio-economic reasons, since one section is wealthier than the others. The nearby towns of Montgomery and Belle Meade are notoriously uppity too. Yes, there are students from all over who attend, but there are many from Princeton High School and NJ and NY private schools, and of course the staff are local too. </p>
<p>So I don’t doubt the writer’s impressions and thus have no interest in discrediting her. I just think her writing is highschoolish and it’s therefore a leap to classify its rejection as censorship.</p>
<p>well, I read the article and I can tell you it was a lot better written than a similar article that <em>was</em> published in the Wesleyan paper a few weeks ago, much to everyone’s embarrassment and which eventually had to be pulled from the online version of the paper: [When</a> A Student Newspaper Stumbles, Who Is To Blame? - Tenured Radical - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/blognetwork/tenuredradical/2011/10/news-shorts-student-newspaper-retracts-article-on-the-womens-college-experience/]When”>http://chronicle.com/blognetwork/tenuredradical/2011/10/news-shorts-student-newspaper-retracts-article-on-the-womens-college-experience/)</p>
<p>But, on the general topic of HYP stereotypes, just about the only one that I can attest to from repeated personal experience is their propensity (male graduates, in particular) during casual conversation, to exhaust a topic before taking a breath. At first i thought it was just one individual, but this has been a source of some amusement and bemusement over many years, now. I’ve finally figured out this is a habit they’ve picked up from listening to too many hours of lecture classes where the prof is basically the only person speaking for 45 minutes at time. Apparently, HYP grads think this is a badge of the well-educated person when in actuality it comes across as a wierd kind of narcisisim.</p>
<p>My .02 dollars.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It’s not “censorship” when a student-run paper chooses not to run an article, no matter what the reason is…unless it’s pressure from the administration, perhaps.</p></li>
<li><p>The manners and social scene at Princeton don’t really have anything to do with New Jersey, one way or another.</p></li>
<li><p>As somebody who has spent years in both the north and the south, there are obvious differences in how people behave, especially in public. I don’t believe the people in either area are smarter, nicer, or better, but their public behavior will come off as either rude or fake to people from the other region. An example: If a person is coming through a crowd with a large object, in the south he will most likely say, “Excuse me” or “Pardon me.” In the north, he may well say “Watch yourself” or “Coming through.” The impulse is the same–the execution is just different.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I graduated from Princeton in the mid 80’s. Back when the class was only 1/3 woman and trying to level out the socio-economic backgrounds was just starting. I was on full financial aid.</p>
<p>I really think it’s the attitude that you bring in to these types of situations that determine your happiness. I mingled with the upper crust and the lower crust and honestly sometimes I had no idea who belonged in which category. I did not bicker (could not afford an eating club it and wasn’t comfortable with the process) but I hung out plenty at the clubs with those who were members. It was all fine.</p>
<p>There are all types of students at these schools and I don’t really thing the student body at Princeton is that different from that at its peer institutions. My son is a current sophomore at Princeton and has a very diverse group of friends, both ethnically and socio-economically. I don’t think it’s hard to find happiness at Princeton without being an *****. You just need to have an open mind.</p>
<p>I pretty much agree with Hunt.</p>
<p>Rejecting a column is not censorship. Princeton is not New Jersey - if anything it’s the anti-Jersey. There are definite regional differences in manners and the recent discussion of the use of ma’am and sir certainly pointed that out. </p>
<p>We have a friend whose son is just finishing up at Princeton. (He’s still working on his final thesis, but he should have graduated in the spring.) He’s the most self-effacing kid imaginable. He’s never complained about Princeton, but it was not a good fit at all. His first girlfriend there was a certifiable nutcase - who eventually got pregnant and dropped out. The current one seems very sweet. He does belong to an eating-club, but it is apparently one that accepts everyone. </p>
<p>I think all the old elite Ivy schools do have a significant portion of old money - some of whom behave in snooty ways - most don’t. (Or at least they aren’t snooty by my warped northeastern standards. 
).</p>
<p>I have heard that there is a certain sense of snobbiness at all the Ivys not just Princeton so before the author condemns Princeton alone she should check that out.</p>
<p>Princeton does not want to admit a bunch of kids from NJ, I imagine by state, the distribution is not predominantly NJ students.</p>
<p>As for the differences of east and west, I am from the west coast and have lived here in the east for over 20 years. When you live in a place that is warm and sunny most of the time, your sense of speed and maybe politeness is definitely different than when you are freezing your butt off trying to get into and out of NYC via a bus or train. </p>
<p>The mixture of different ethnic groups and incomes also come into play so it isn’t so simple to just say east, west and south.</p>
<p>BTW, I had a friend who felt that southern charm always sounded passive aggressive to him and insincere so it depends on what your ear hears.</p>
<p>I also agree with Hunt.</p>
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<p>I think you are right: it’s really a city mentality issue. I was just in Boston last week with a number of people from other New England states for a training. One of the other trainees was from a rural area in Rhode Island, and she told us that she was amazed that people on the street (in the Copley area) didn’t greet her! Those of us with a bit more worldly experience found that expectation–for a major city-- highly amusing. It was like Beverley Hillbillies or something.</p>
<p>People always greet each other–including complete strangers–if they pass on the roads in my small town while walking/biking. Sometimes, people driving by will wave to walkers, and vice versa. (In the towns in CT where I lived, people also always greeted anyone they passed while out walking in residential areas.) But when I go to Portland, 10 miles away, I don’t greet people on the sidewalk unless I know them. It’s a matter of numbers, for one thing. And the same is true of every city I’ve spent time in, including those in the South. In a city, if a complete stranger starts talking to you as you are walking long a sidewalk, its either a crazy person or they are hitting on you. :D</p>
<p>Regarding snobbery and pretension in the Ivies, one thing that has always set Dartmouth apart, in my experience, is the lack of both amongst the student body in comparison to some others. It just generally isn’t considered cool there to wonder at yourself. (Although there are some everywhere, of course.)</p>
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<p>I’m so sorry you’ve had the experience in Texas that people “never” do what you’ve asked. I can assure you, though, that is not the norm. People in Texas work just as hard as anywhere else in the world. Lots and lots of stuff “gets done” here. 
I, personally, come home after a shift completely spent. Never have I not done what asked at work, and I always do what I commit to outside of work. However, I will never commit to do something unless I know I can. And I’m not much different in those respects than most of the people with whom I work or associate. We’re pretty average, typical Texans in this regard-just regular, non spectacular yet conscientious types.</p>
<p>I live in Dallas. It seems in the past several decades that many, many transplants from the Northeast and Midwest have moved here. I haven’t really ever noticed any truly significant cultural differences, just little ones here and there. We’re all Americans and share more similarities than differences, at least that’s been my take.</p>
<p>How does Princeton succeed in being anti- the place in which it is located? Is Princeton so very elite that it alone can rise above its geographic setting? Hmm, people attribute New England traditionalism to Harvard, laid-back Cali style with Stanford, a coastal artsy leisure style with Brown, tough urban competitiveness with Penn, pastoral charm with Cornell.</p>
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<p>[Salon</a> | The Salon Interview: Allan Gurganus, page 3](<a href=“http://www2.salon.com/books/int/1997/12/cov_si_08gurganus3.html]Salon”>http://www2.salon.com/books/int/1997/12/cov_si_08gurganus3.html)</p>
<p>…And here I thought Princeton was known as the “Southern Ivy!”</p>
<p>^^^
Now THAT (#32) is quality writing, even if it is excerpted from an interview. Thanks for posting. Explains why I didn’t last more than a year in NC. Hopefully Tiger2014 will finesse her nascent journalistic skills during the remainder of her time at P. What’s missing from her essay is any attempt at impartial analysis, it comes off as a juvenile rant without merit for publication.</p>
<p>momsquad: If you haven’t read him, Gurganus is delightful. Plays Well With Others is my favorite. I laughed - I cried :)</p>
<p>But all his work is worth a read imho</p>
<p>edit: I didn’t think the OP article was bad. I found it quite interesting and read it closely. Maybe not all writing is meant to be impartial?</p>
<p>I think the author wrote it like that just for the sake of going against the normal ivy-tower-esque style. Subtle?</p>
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<p>Really? I thought in the Northeast they just say, “Give me your watch…”</p>
<p>I thought it was actually pretty well-written, though the style of writing was casual. (I’m not commenting on the content, because I have no first-hand experience.) The title, “Princeton brats” was unnecessarily inflammatory, though. Basically, the manner of the people she encountered at Princeton are brusque and/or borderline rude. Also, it’s a bit long for a newspaper opinion piece, I think, but the newspaper could have edited it for length.</p>
<p>“and the lower crust …”</p>
<p>Lower crust? At Princeton? What would that be, a Senator’s son?</p>
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<p>There are parts of Jersey where they do that too. When it happens, give them your watch, then kiss your — goodbye. lol.</p>