<p>Back to talking about the article, I think that the OP just had the misfortune of meeting some very unfriendly students. I think this sort of thing happens in all colleges, from Princeton to the average commuter school. Even if Princeton is more “snobby” than other schools, I’m sure that most people there like it just fine anyways. On the other hand, what is definitely measurable is the excellence of its FA policy, which I think is the best in the nation.</p>
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<p>True, they would much rather maintain the Gone With The Wind fiction.</p>
<p>Now let’s talk about all of those charming, friendly Southerners and Jim Crow. Not to mention Schwerner, Goodman, Chaney, and Viola Liuzzo. Of course, some of them were Yankees and undoubtedly deserved it, right? Because they didn’t call people “honey”?</p>
<p>But a Southerner wouldn’t say that. Oh, no. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Look, every region has its negative history and its obnoxious people. But I, for one, would appreciate it if the adults on CC would recognize that YOUR regional habits are not universally-held standards of politeness and dial back the regional stereotyping. One person’s “friendly” is another person’s fakery. One person’s reserve or dignity is another person’s coldness. Just stop.</p>
<p>Can we at least make fun of Snooki?</p>
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<p>Snooki & Princeton in the same thread…just imagine the hilarious mental images one could conjure up…</p>
<p>Wouldn’t “Snooki goes to Princeton” be a great movie?</p>
<p>Well, I took three tours at Princeton. One with my son, one with my niece, and a third with my D. All were awful, and we said to ourselves “If it weren’t Princeton, this school would be crossed off the list.” If you read the ongoing CC thread about crossing schools off after visiting, you will see that there are quite a few others who also had unimpressive tours. For one thing, at that time the tour starting point was a darkish basement. On the most recent of the tours, there was a student and her father who had obviously arrived from far away by train. Both of them had to drag their suitcases along on the entire tour. After the first few minutes of the clacking wheels, if not when they first showed up for the tour, you’d think a Princetonian in charge would have offered to store their luggage while they walked around. I guarantee that would have happened at a place like Colgate, which had the nicest admissions people ever. Just sayin’.</p>
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<p>While I’d be highly amused at the more snobby undergrad Princetonians turning beet red, hyperventilating, and pleading for the “smelling salts”…I’d be hesitant to throw all the cool Princeton grad students and grad alums under the bus for this amusement. </p>
<p>They certainly don’t deserve this…</p>
<p>^ Agreed. Not to mention that another NJ university already wasted too much money on her…</p>
<p>[Extremism</a> in Connecticut - Summary](<a href=“http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/ct/default.asp]Extremism”>http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/ct/default.asp)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Despite-racial-progress-suburbs-still-mostly-443426.php[/url]”>http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Despite-racial-progress-suburbs-still-mostly-443426.php</a></p>
<p>[Complicity</a>. How Connecticut Chained Itself To Slavery - Courant.com](<a href=“http://www.courant.com/news/special-reports/hc-slavery,0,3441547.special]Complicity”>http://www.courant.com/news/special-reports/hc-slavery,0,3441547.special)</p>
<p>[Slavery</a> in Connecticut Websites](<a href=“http://www.yale.edu/glc/Stratford/ctslavery.htm]Slavery”>http://www.yale.edu/glc/Stratford/ctslavery.htm)</p>
<p>evil is evil regardless of geography</p>
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<p>As I said, EVERY region has its negative history and its obnoxious people.</p>
<p>"Well, I took three tours at Princeton. One with my son, one with my niece, and a third with my D. All were awful, and we said to ourselves “If it weren’t Princeton, this school would be crossed off the list.” </p>
<p>We did a tour in 2010 August, on a pretty gloomy day. My kid is still ambivalent about applying there and DW thought it was the worst tour we had taken anywhere. The tour guides seemed so unexcited about the school that it sounded as dry as poem recited in monotone. It is such a beautiful campus with a really bad tour.</p>
<p>Bicker/eating clubs really do fundamentally drive the undergraduate student life at Princeton. The university, which has traditionally enjoyed the highest alumni/ae giving rate percentage of any school in the country, essentially has its hands tied because many (most?) of the alumni/ae feel very connected to this system of social life and would certainly vote with their money. I think it is going to take some ■■■■■■■ for any P’ton president to really effect any change there, though Meg Whitman’s new residential college may play a little role.</p>
<p>If you’re not familiar, Princeton has combo dorm/dining halls called “eating clubs,” which are privately owned and managed by alumni/ae associations of those groups; they are not affiliated with Princeton in any way. They are dining halls where the majority of Princeton upperclassmen eat their meals. Each eating club occupies a large mansion on Prospect Avenue, one of the main roads that runs through the Princeton campus. There are eleven eating clubs (6 of which are selective - “bicker” - and five of which do a lottery). </p>
<p>3/4ths of Princeton undergraduate upper-year students are members of an eating club (which costs $$ too, by the way) which means they eat their meals at the club, not any place on campus. </p>
<p>If you are a student who does not feel like s/he fits in with an eating club, or if s/he does not have the financial resources to join, or if s/he is not selected for an eating club (through bicker or through sign-ins/the lottery) Princeton can be a very lonely place, quite literally. Additionally, the cost of Eating Club dues, now $8000-$9000/year depending on club, is significantly higher than Princeton’s dining hall plan cost and Princeton financial aid cannot be used/is not allotted for eating club dues.</p>
<p>The eating clubs also provide many services for their members. Each club, in general, has a living room, library, computer cluster, billiard room, and tap room. Members frequently use club facilities for studying and socializing. Each club also has a large lawn and often students play various sports on club lawns. Each club will generally have a party on Thursday and Sunday nights and the clubs organize much of P’town social events (formals, semi-formals, alumni/ae events, etc.) - (typically those things are all limited to club members).</p>
<p>Not all of the eating clubs are “country-club-esque,” where everyone went to prep school and “summers.” Some are more alternative-y, literary, pseudo-intellectual bohemian (if you can picture what I’m saying). Some are athlete/“frat boy” oriented. Etc. But they’re all “scenes,” so to speak.</p>
<p>I imagine coming from a place with a very different culture, and where one was a “big fish in small pond,” to a place with very complex social hierarchies like Princeton can be extremely disappointing/overwhelming. </p>
<p>I have a friend who described her experience at Princeton like this (socially - granted this was about a decade ago): “I remember getting to campus my freshman year and trying to figure out how all of these people in my hall already knew each other and it was because they all were in the same ‘circles,’ so to speak. They all had played field hockey against each other’s schools (I didn’t even know what field hockey was!), or had spent their summers near each other at the beach, or went to the same summer camps, or they all had SOME connection, even if distant - a cousin, a former classmate, someone who linked them all together. And they wore the same stuff - the same labels were popular amongst almost all of this group, labels I had never even heard of, let alone afford, myself. I didn’t come from a low-income background at all either - I grew up solidly upper-middle-class in generic Midwestern America. Boy was I in for a shock.”</p>
<p>I think that, like every college campus in America, Princeton has a definite flavor and, like every college campus in America, it will be disappointing or isolating for some.</p>
<p>The way Princeton adcoms present their FA policy, the aid goes up to cover the eating club dues if one is admitted but I could be wrong on that.</p>
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<p>If that’s the case, that’s a change from previous years (much needed and welcomed!) and I apologize for my error. I know in 07-08 (or was it 08-09?) Princeton decided to try that out for a year, but I was under the impression that it was a temporary move/decision and they went back to the old system afterwards. Good news for Princeton students and thanks for the correction.</p>
<p>justmytwocents - I dont know that for certain since FA calculators tell me I have to pay for everything and so I don’t pay too much attention to what they are saying about FA (time I zone out during presentations). I just remember someone asking that question and being told the FA goes up but I have attended it 3 years in a row.</p>
<p>OTOH - It might work well for someone on fullaid. What if someone gets 30-40k as aid and rest comes out of their pocket?</p>
<p>I’m finding this thread fascinating for what it says about the posters (including me), their preconceptions and their biases.</p>
<p>In terms of presenting some additional facts:</p>
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<li><p>Princeton Eating Clubs are not “combo dorm/dining halls”. They are clubs where members eat and all Princeton students socialize. There are a very few rooms reserved for officers at most of the club, but almost no one lives at the clubs.</p></li>
<li><p>In terms of financial aid, Princeton financial aid covers the bulk of the cost of membership in an Eating Club. Here’s what the Princeton website says:</p></li>
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<li><p>Any student who wants to can sign in to one of the five sign-in clubs. I have never heard of any student who could not join a club if he or she wanted. Obviously, you might not like the options, but there are options.</p></li>
<li><p>In terms of a “complex social hierarchy” at Princeton, I’m a little confused by this. All schools are probably offputting for some kids. For example, in schools with a large frat/sorority presence, if you don’t get selected by the greek organization you want, you can be very unhappy. In addition, there are probably frats/sororities where the most popular kids congregate etc. At Yale, if you don’t get selected for one of the secret societies, you might be upset, at Harvard, if you don’t get picked for a finals club you might be devastated and at all schools, just as in life, there are probably organizations that are quite selective or that you will be upset if you don’t get the opportunity to join (could be the top a cappella group on campus or the theater group). I don’t think Princeton is particularly more complex than other similar schools.</p></li>
<li><p>I went back and looked over the thread about visiting Princeton and frankly, there were numerous schools that had just as many negative comments as Princeton. While I recognize and appreciate that several posters on this thread did not enjoy their Princeton tours, many of the schools visited by lots of people were not universally liked.</p></li>
<li><p>And cobrat, a special thanks for this-- </p></li>
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<p>If one of the commentators about the OP’s article had said something similarly obnoxious, many of you would be exclaiming how that’s just an example of the awful, snarky Princeton students.</p>
<p>@justmytwocents,</p>
<p>Thank you very much for that description, fascinating. The eating houses sound very much like fraternities and sororities, only co-ed.</p>
<p>It is interesting to me that a lot of the commentary on this thread focuses on the presumably “upper-crust” students at Princeton, with the supposition that some of them are snobbish. I just reread the article that started this, and I don’t see any evidence that the people who treated Jessie Ye rudely come from wealthy families. The student working at orientation very probably did not. The Physics TA? Exceedingly unlikely to come from a wealthy background. Cheerleading? I don’t know, but I don’t associate that with wealth currently. (I know George W. Bush was a cheerleader–is it still a college activity for prep-school students?) Some of the eating clubs might be exclusionary, based on family background–anybody know?–but Ye is a freshman, so she’s not involved in that yet.</p>
<p>I think assuming wealthy = snobby or elitist is a huge cop-out made by people who are fundamentally insecure.</p>
<p>No idea about Princeton, but the piece’s writer was just a skosh over the top when talking about how hard it was coming from Sin City. “Growing up in Las Vegas, Nevada forces you to watch your back and take nothing for granted.” Maybe, maybe not. We have family friends who’ve lived there for decades, very much upper middle class now working on sending the third generation off to some of the same very nice colleges that are seemingly filled with mean people. </p>
<p>Which is not to say that life in Vegas, or any big city, can’t be rough. But you don’t get people from NYC or Detroit or New Orleans or Los Angeles or Miami writing about how growing up in (fill in name of city) is such a burden. Growing up on the wrong side of the tracks, without lots of people wanting to head in your same direction, that’s hard. Being from Vegas, on its own, isn’t.</p>