@Happytimes2001 High verbal scores on the SAT does not make a top writer. The SAT isn’t testing writing ability. Neither is the ACT. Y’all are too obsessed with academic stats.
@itsgettingreal17 No, the SAT doesn’t test writing any longer. They tried it and people complained that the test favored some over others. Ok, let me just say this. According to US News and World report here are the top and bottom rankings for US education. MA is #1 and NJ is #2. While, LA is #49 and NM is #50). I’m pretty sure someone in MA or NJ does not want their grades compared to someone in LA and NM. The SAT takes out the state and school differentials. It shows that someone attends a difficult/magnet or charter school or a school where education isn’t taken seriously. There are lots of states where education is failing and lots of states where you can get a great public school education. Why should someone who is learning a lot be compared to someone in a failing school. It doesn’t make any sense. The SAT is used to figure out the REAL strength of the student vs. everyone in the nation.
This is probably why both MIT and Caltech ask for AMC and AIME scores (if taken) on their applications. Course rigor and STEM AP scores are also used to sort the top layer of students at that level. Beyond whatever SAT/ACT/SAT II level they have decided shows readiness for their curriculum, they are also looking for students who fit their environment.
Oh okay - no standardized tests, no class rank - how exactly do you expect college admissions committees to have an objective standard on which to evaluate? This isn’t utopia - there are only so many slots available at each school and in order to make sure people who will do the best in those slots get them, there has to be a way to evaluate. There’s not enough time in the world to drill down on the millions of students applying to colleges individually - there has to be something that allows comparison. Standardized tests are there because you have to have a standard on which to evaluate talent and intelligence. You can’t just try and figure out by someone’s life narrative if they seem nice and smart and use that as criteria for entry.
@SatchelSF you’re right, the number of kids w perfect scores is vastly overstated in admissions chats where the narrative persists that Harvard or Stanford could fill their classes several times over w perfect SAT applicants. The data were available from the College Board in 2013 when my son took the old SAT: fewer than 400 perfect 2400s, fewer than 800 with 2390 or above WORLDWIDE. (Ie out of roughly 1.7M test takers that year)
http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-Composite-CR-M-W-2013.pdf
They shouldn’t get rid of the SAT - they should make it harder.
In this era of Grade-flation how else can kid differentiate themselves?
Here is a super interesting site on grade inflation at the college level over the last half century or so. The school level data (at the bottom) are particularly helpful.
Here is an excellent article on this very question:
It is important to note that correlation between academic/ job success and standardized testing is .5 or higher. No where else in the social sciences you see R this high. If standardized testing is not good enough, then all of the social sciences is a scam.
The most stunning figure for me comes from Vanderbilt, where they found students scoring at the top quarter of 1% at age 13 to be much more accomplished than those in the bottom quarter of 1% many decades later. For some one like me, growing up in the lowest strata of the working class, it was my performance on an experimental version of an SAT for Ontario that set me off for university. I realized then that students from the wealthy suburbs did not have anything, intellectually speaking, over me. I was right.
Don’t agree at all. I see this as just more “Everyone gets a participation trophy” mentality. Girls seem to get test anxiety more than boys and that probably artificially lower their test scores. On the other hand boy have a tougher time in school settings because school is designed more for how girls learn, and that probably artificially lowers boy’s GPAs. There is no perfect solution, but GPA and test scores are good indicators of IQ, college performance, and reaching career goals.
We can flip these things and thereby show how biased they are.
Girls have a tougher time with tests because they are designed more for how boys think, but they do better in school because boys don’t know how to plan and execute complex assignments over time.
@OHMomof2 Brilliantly said.
The education system was set up to teach people to be test takers because they’re easier to control that way.
We should be thankful that US colleges look at the applications holistically.
In most of the foreign countries, entrance exams are the only way to get into colleges.
I just came across a discouraging article about wealthy students getting accommodations for tests who may not really need them. The article states that at some schools a whopping 30% of students are given extra time to take the SAT, ACT, etc. I asked my son about his classmates, and he agreed that about 30%, if not more, of the students in his grade were getting accommodations. The article suggests that the College Board does not want to tackle this issue because it would lead people to question the legitimacy of their test results.
Maybe becoming test optional and more holistic is a way for colleges to address this issue? For universities with huge applicant pools, though, they really need test results to quickly sift through applicants.
https://nypost.com/2018/05/02/rich-parents-are-using-doctors-notes-to-help-kids-cheat-the-sats/
@Kelman13 and @Ohiomomof2 Are you for real? I personally have three family members all FEMALE who have scored 99% on both SAT ( 7th grade!!! for one) SET ( that means kids who score above 700 on either math or English before the age of 13, SSAT and other various tests.
To say that the sex of a person has bearing on an SAT test takes us back years!! People who think this way also buy into the notion that boys are better in math and girls are better in English. Please adjust your thinking to 21st Century mores or at least do not paint the entire female gender pool with your anti-female bias. Perhaps you should visit with some high achieving females who have scored in the top of the top. Do you realize that women are in every industry and college in the nation doing amazing things? I have heard so many parents (mainly Moms sadly) say their girls are not interested in math and science around 3rd grade. Guess what, with that attitude they won’t be. Not to mention at best they will only score well in 1/2 of the SAT. Congrats this type of thinking will set kids up for lower paying jobs and access to half of the choices they would otherwise have.
@Happytimes2001 maybe you should re-read my post. We agree.
This is fascinating.
I always told my kids that standardized tests really are about testing their ability to sit still and fill in little bubbles.
The fact that teachers make such a big deal about them, is why kids are nervous. Tests are fun, for some of us.
Teachers in some public school districts are judged and promoted based on standardized test scores. But in the end, sitting still is a great skill to have. Take the SAT to learn it or go to church and try not to squirm.
As far as college, Pitzer College in CA, Rollins College in Florida and Reed College are some that may not
care as much about test scores, and look for creative individuals.
How do colleges measure creativity? Some use an interview process. That may be helpful, but keep the standardized tests so our kids know how to fill in bubbles and sit still! Great skills to have!
I once tutored a Guatemalan who had never filled in bubbles and it took her five tries to pass her written driving test.
I bet most of our SAT savvy kiddos do not struggle with a written multiple guess driving test! Now thats something!
@Happytimes2001. gender bias in testing is REAl. It can go either way in fact, be biased towards or away from girls.
And yes, all USA Math Olympiad winners are boys. Those are facts. Its not about “your politics” just look up the scores on the Putnam Math exam, a college level proof based exam. The winners are boys, for as long as the Putnam Math exam has existed. Then, ask yourself why that is? No one knows for sure. And yes I am a girl who is good in math.
@Coloradomama many girls don’t take the qualifying exams at all.
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/04/girls-math-international-competiton/478533/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081010081648.htm
There has been one female Putnam winner - she was not raised in the US.
https://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/01/nyregion/q-how-many-women-have-won-the-top-math-contest.html