<p>Any plan we go to will have an upside and a downside. We just have to figure out which is most palatable as a society. Any national plan will likely cover most members of society. The tradeoff will be less access to care, longer waits for care, and, yes, death panels. Meaning we will no longer spend so much money trying to keep the elderly alive. Right now, the American society balks at this. Consumers insist on “doing everything possible” rather than accepting that death is a part of life and allowing people to die peacefully. </p>
<p>I have always told my nursing students that they need to explore their own feelings towards death and the dying process. Working in medicine forces you to do that. Watching people suffer as we “do everything” to keep them alive, when their bodies are ready to die, makes you much more accepting of death.</p>
<p>I had a friend in her 30s, diagnosed with stage 4 liver cancer. Because she was young, she was treated very aggressively. The time from diagnosis to death was 8 months. In that 8 months she suffered terribly. Chemo and radiation were awful. After she passed, her family questioned whether it was worth it. If she was going to die anyway, wouldn’t it have been better to not tax her body with poisons and for her to have LIVED her last months rather than EXISTING? My personal feeling is yes. If you can’t cure me, then I’m going to try to live out my last months doing the things I want, not constantly going to doctors and being sick the whole time. Is our society ready for that plan? I don’t think so. Hence the “heroic doctor” mentality mentioned above. Perhaps Europeans are more accepting than we are. The whole c’est la vie thing.</p>
<p>sally305–even in the UK everything is NOT covered. You can certainly get a plan that “covers everything” but do you really want to pay for it? Ask your relatives how long they would have to wait if they wanted a knee replacement. Ask them what percentage of their income taxes go to pay for their “free” plan. Does your insurance coverage really keep you up at night? Seriously? It’s a fallacy that hoards of people are filing bankruptcy to cover medical costs—and look at the history of those that are and why. Many of those people chose NOT to take health insurance coverage to begin with, find themselves needing coverage and all of the sudden they have $100,000 in medical costs they can’t pay. VERY few people that have a real health insurance plan file bankruptcy for medical costs. You are buying into the media hype. Do some actual research and you will find that this so called problem really doesn’t exist. Yes, there are some people that have had to do this, but look into the reason WHY. Also, do you have proof of these so called “profit margins”? I think again you will find that it’s not the insurance companies that are getting these “profits”. </p>
<p>As for pre-existing conditions, it would not be an issue if people would maintain health insurance coverage. There have been provisions in the US for YEARS that this should NEVER be an issue, but it continues today because people choose not to get coverage. Again, non-issue for anyone in 2014 but until then and leading up to this there were private plans available at very reasonable rates to cover these gaps-with varying coverage levels and premiums. It’s a choice people make and usually choose wrongly. How is this the fault of an insurance company or even the system as it stands? There ARE options but you have to take advantage of those options.</p>
<p>dkitty21–what was her prognosis before treatment started? My dad just underwent chemo and radiation for cancer, age 75. Maybe he should not have been able to access that treatment because of his age but guess what, he had NO side effects from either other than needing a nap after his weekly chemo because they started with a double dose of benadryl to keep the nausea away. He didn’t lose his hair, didn’t have any other problems. Just finished his first follow up with his oncologist and his tumor is gone. You never know. We had a friend that had non-hodgkins about 15 years ago. He was undergoing treatment at the same time as a woman from a nearby town. She was a year younger than our friend, so basically the same age, early 30’s. He did his treatments and has been cancer free for 15 years, she did not survive. Same cancer, same stage, totally different results. It’s not an exact science.</p>
<p>tom1944–life expectancy has a lot more factors than just medical care…people in the US do not have that much less of a life expectancy then other countries…those countries that do have better life expediencies are more related to diet and lifestyle because I certainly would list Japan as on of the top countries for medical care.</p>
<p>SteveMa - do other countries have this same national discussion about overhauling their medical system?
What would happen in any other country if some politicain came in and said we are ending our HC system and converting to the US model? What would happen in the US if someone said we are ending Medicare and everyone over 65 needs to be insurered the same way everyone under 65 is?</p>
<p>“As for pre-existing conditions, it would not be an issue if people would maintain health insurance coverage. There have been provisions in the US for YEARS that this should NEVER be an issue, but it continues today because people choose not to get coverage.”</p>
<p>Most people without health insurance do not choose to be without insurance. They do not have coverage because it is too expensive.</p>
<p>tom1944-I am sure that in the US there were be great cries of joy if they ended medicare and people could just stay on their company plans for life. Not only would we not be sinking 7% of our income into Medicare, people would have access to better plans with less out of pocket costs in their retirement years. I think you are under the impression that Medicare itself is a good plan-it is not. Medicare ONLY covers hospital stays and even then with pretty significant out of pocket costs for longer stays. You have to pay extra if you want to get your dr’s appointments covered and if you don’t want to be paying a huge portion of every medical bill, you pay extra for a medical advantage plan. Up until the ACA, there was basically NO coverage for prescription medications (look up Medicare donut hole). As for other countries having this discussion–yes, they do since most people in those countries opt for private plans on top of their “Free” care so they can get better coverage. The UK type plans are fine if you need an antibiotic for an ear infection but for anything more serious, they just are not that good so people that can afford them opt for private plans. Those that can’t afford them, have to deal with the long, long waits and limited coverage. Kind of sounds like the US plans, only we pay for our costs out of our paychecks–oh, wait, they do in the UK too-it’s just under a different line item in their pay checks. 45% tax rate for personal taxes in the UK, Canada has a goofy system but its 20%-54.75% (15%-29% federal [40] 5%-25.75% provincial [41])–then add in the sales taxes in Canada (15+%), Sweden 57%, Netherlands 57%. Add up your tax rates, throw in your out of pocket medical costs–premiums, co-pays, etc. What is your “tax rate” now with those costs? Is it more than 50% of your gross income–doubt it. If you want a national plan, are you willing to pay 30-40% extra for it?</p>
<p>“those countries that do have better life expediencies are more related to diet and lifestyle because I certainly would list Japan as on of the top countries for medical care.”</p>
<p>Japan has top notch medical care. Japan has universal health coverage.</p>
<p>emilybee–do you not see that it’s a choice–they are choosing to spend their money on something else, it is a choice. I have a friend that freely admits she won’t get medical insurance because it’s “too expensive”–but in the next facebook post is posting pictures of her at all these various concerts she attends. The cost of the tickets for those concerts is more than her health insurance plan would cost for her family. Then, in one really great Facebook post she was thanking God that the hospital wrote of the $36,000 medical bill she had for gallbladder surgery. Yes, it’s a choice…</p>
<p>Get a second job to pay for your health insurance if you have to–that is a choice too.</p>
<p>emilybee–you seriously think Japan has “top notch” medical care----really? I can give you lists and lists of people that would beg to differ… They also pay 50% of their income into taxes to pay for that “top” care…What percent of your income goes to taxes and medical care?</p>
<p>“The UK type plans are fine if you need an antibiotic for an ear infection but for anything more serious, they just are not that good so people that can afford them opt for private plans.”</p>
<p>That is so not true. </p>
<p>And only 10% of UK citizens have a private policy and most of them are through multinational corporations which, like here, offer employee heath insurance. </p>
<p>SteveMa- why do you assume companies will let people stay on the plans. If companies had to insure the over 65 population they would drop HC at a rate that would make your head spin.</p>
<p>“emilybee–you seriously think Japan has “top notch” medical care----really? I can give you lists and lists of people that would beg to differ.”</p>
<p>Yes, please do. I would like to see this list. </p>
<p>“emilybee–do you not see that it’s a choice–they are choosing to spend their money on something else, it is a choice.”</p>
<p>Many, many people have this bizarre desire to have a roof over their heads, heat and have enough money to feed and cloth their family. Shocking, I know. </p>
<p>Many people have to work two and three jobs just to afford the above.</p>
<p>tom1944–well, that would depend on what the law states they can and cannot do. There is no way Medicare would be dropped without some provision like this on the books…</p>
<p>emilybee–feel free to go live in the UK and use their medical system and report back how wonderful it is…Again, what percent of income tax and medical costs do you currently pay in the US? Also, read further in the link you provided—in the UK, they pay double what individuals in the US do for health costs…just out of different line item on their paycheck…are you willing to pay that much more just so you don’t have to pay a $15 co-pay at the dr?</p>
<p>Steve, it’s not a choice if you can’t GET insurance, let alone afford it. A couple of concert tickets a year is not the same as thousands and thousands of dollars of insurance premiums–seriously. I know a young woman who is job hunting and freaking out about not getting a job with insurance coverage because she had brain surgery a few years ago. She is completely fine now, but that is a red flag to insurers and she has been told what it will cost if she has to buy insurance on her own. When my last company relocated out of state and I didn’t have a new job lined up yet, I looked into getting insurance JUST for me (having my kids go on their dad’s policy) and it was going to be close to $600 a month with high deductibles. And I am extremely healthy and have never had any major medical issues. There went my dream of staring my own consulting business.</p>
<p>There’s something very wrong if the WHO ranks the U.S. 37th among “civilized” nations in terms of the healthcare we provide our citizens.</p>
<p>emilybee–again–you are buying into media hype–look up the real numbers of those without access to medical insurance that are US citizens. The problem is not what you are making it out to be.</p>
<p>“What percent of your income goes to taxes and medical care?”</p>
<p>Very little but I am more than willing to pay more to insure everyone in the US has health insurance and health care. </p>
<p>But you have pointed out the real problem in this country. It’s not about the type of health care/insurance it’s that a significant portion of the population simply do not want to pay more in taxes. And they don’t want to pay more taxes for anything - schools, infrastructure, public safety, clean air, clean water, etc., etc., etc.</p>
<p>sally305–How old is this young woman? If you start your own consulting company your health insurance premiums will become a tax deduction and your net cost will be a fraction of that $600/month. I don’t know where you live but that is a REALLY high premium for a private plan. When we were without corporate insurance coverage we got individual plans for our entire family–$585/month total for all of us. We had free preventative care (annual physicals, cancer screenings), $20 co-pay for office visits and $5000 out of pocket maximum, each, for major medical. Not the best policy but certainly not bad. What exactly was your coverage with that $600/month? Maybe you would have had a $10,000 out of pocket or whatever, but what are the chances you would have used that, and you would have maintained coverage until the next job. It’s all relative.</p>
<p>SteveMa- are you proposing that the government should require companies to provide HC and end Medicare?</p>
<p>My spouse who has never done an unhealthy thing in her life could never get health care coverage because at the age of 22 she got sick. She has great coverage through my government plan but many other people like her are not as fortunate.</p>
<p>"emilybee–again–you are buying into media hype–look up the real numbers of those without access to medical insurance that are US citizens. The problem is not what you are making it out to be.</p>
<p>I have seen the statistics. Most of the 50M+ uninsured are citizens.</p>
<p>And I’m waiting for your lists and lists of people who re Japan’s health care system.</p>
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