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<p>Computer programming skills. I’ve known high schoolers earning more.</p>
<p>It sounds to me like a $12/hour “internship” is more of a job – but perhaps a way for the company to avoid paying other benefits that would go along with regular employment.</p>
<p>Adding to my post #61 above - the internship could also be in a realm where regular employees are paid significantly more for similar work. Again, I would guess technical/computer related stuff. </p>
<p>NSM, it seems to me that you have unrealistically low expectations as to hourly pay rates, perhaps informed by the part of the country you live in. You made a comment about a student wanting for an $8.50/hour job, when everyone in your area works for “minimum wage.” Well… my son was earning $8.50 for his flunky job at the local pizzeria when he was a 17 year old high school senior – and my d. was earning at least $9/hour, maybe more, when she worked retail the summer after her high school graduation. Calif. minimum wage is set higher than many states, but my kids’ jobs were somewhat above minimum wage in any case. In NY, as a college freshman, my d. was getting $20/hour for bartending ($22/hour if you include tips). </p>
<p>I don’t know where pwoods is working this summer, but as a Columbia-admitted student, I figure the kid is pretty smart. Maybe in your part of the country that seems like a huge amount to pay a new grad… but in many high cost of living areas, while that certainly would be considered a good offer for a recent high school grad, it isn’t exactly jaw-dropping.</p>
<p>But I’d also point out that some people get paid more simply because they have higher expectations. I think the last time my d. worked for minimum wage was at age 14 – the big lesson that summer was that minimum wage simply wasn’t enough. I do realize that in a tough economy, expectations need to be adjusted – but that doesn’t mean that everyone needs to simply grab the first job that comes along. Part of the process of getting better pay is to develop a sense of when to say no or to ask for more, and to strike a balance between the pay rate and the opportunities the job offers in terms of experienced gained and career advancement.</p>
<p>I don’t think some of the people on this thread have any idea how hard it is for new grads to get a job in their field. It’s like they are posting in 1980.</p>
<p>From Calmom: "You don’t need to have some sort of vocational “skill” to get a job. My kids are poli sci majors; my kids are employed at jobs related to their majors. My d. just graduated; the job she now has required a “B.A. degree in political science, international relations, history, or related field.” She was hired the same day as her graduation. </p>
<p>I don’t know what the “chances” are of getting the job. Based on the number of applicants for the job my d. has, in theory the odds are 250:1 – but in this market, its likely that many of the applications were from people who were not even remotely qualified. I think the key to getting a job for a college grad is having relevant experience, either via internships or paid employment during college. </p>
<p>But art, sociology, history, etc. are certainly not worthless majors."</p>
<p>I never said they were worthless–that’s YOUR language (maybe a Freudian slip?). I said that we need to stop funneling kids into majors where they get to wait tables when they graduate. Maybe if your family is financially independent, art would make a great major. You will have a lot to talk about at cocktail parties.</p>
<p>Actually 1980 was a bad year too. I ended up moving to Texas as the north and Midwest went down the tubes.</p>
<p>My point is that my kids aren’t waiting tables and I don’t know of any friends of theirs who are waiting tables. (They have a cousin who is waiting tables, but she is 19 and attending community college – and her mom is in the restaurant business). There are lots of opportunities kids with their majors in fields related to law, politics and government. Plus students with liberal arts majors generally are more flexible in terms of the type of jobs they may look for – but college grads generally are looking for white collar jobs. </p>
<p>I was following my d’s job search pretty closely – for one thing, I was monitoring one employment listing web site and forwarding her jobs that looked appropriate for her. There was plenty of stuff out there. </p>
<p>I’d also note that my d. dropped down to half time her spring semester, in part to try to earn enough money to finance her post-grad housing costs – during that time she was working at five different part-time jobs, including doing research for two different college profs, and working in an administrative capacity for a local private agency. The job she had with the agency was not the sort of thing she would have wanted for a career – but it was paying work, and I am sure they would have kept her on and increased her hours if she had not found employment. </p>
<p>One advantage that the liberal arts majors is they are not tied to thinking that they have to apply for the type of jobs that they majored in. They don’t think, “I have X training in college so therefore I can only apply to X jobs.” My d has a good friend who is also a poli sci major but accepted a job involving computer networking which pays much more – because, face it, a lot of us liberal arts majors have picked up some really great computer skills along the way. </p>
<p>I gather from your other posts that you have 2 sons majoring in electrical engineering at different colleges. I’m not sure where you draw your experience from – but if new EE graduates are finding a tough market, perhaps its better not to be so specialized. </p>
<p>I’m not saying that the job market isn’t tough. But my experience has been that my d. kept complaining to me about how “tough” the job market was - both for part time employment while in school and for a post-grad job - and then she finds good jobs really quickly as soon as she starts looking. She has cited to experience of some unemployed or marginally employed friends… but then when I ask about their work experience or what they have done to seek work, it turns out that they are lacking in that area as well. </p>
<p>My observation was that my d. got responses from jobs she applied to where she was strongly and closely qualified – but it was a waste of time for her to send resumes if she was not obviously a good fit for the job. So again – experience counts for a lot. My d. has absolutely no experience waiting tables (she took a job in a cafe but hated it so much after one day that she didn’t go back and didn’t even bother to pick up her pay check) – so no matter how tough the market, that’s not where she would find work in any case.</p>
<p>UMEE that ($55000) sounds just about correct for mid-range. A couple engineering programs (MIT, Mudd, Caltech) start abit higher. The bonuses are up a tad this year but starting engineering salaries have been stagnant for a few years. The biggest descrepancies are with the older worker that might be in the high 90s low 100s…those salaries are depressed 10-20% for re-entry into the workplace(at least in the midwest that’s what is happening). </p>
<p>As far as the less funneling kids… The world needs all kinds of people, and plenty of people don’t factor future earning potential as mandate for selecting a major. Thank goodness. It would be sad if students did not have parents who understand what salaries are associated with what skills. There is plenty of anecdotal and industry related studies available with a keystroke that churn out that info year after year. Ironically it often falls on deaf ears of young people who have little understanding or point or reliable reference. Parents can help manage expectations with that regard. </p>
<p>I entered the workforce in the late 70s during a recession. I, too, was able to “catch up” like Mantori only through job hopping in my twenties and a couple location moves. My salary was pretty much keeping up with bonuses, grade increases, profit sharing from 30 up until 4-5 years ago when the doors slammed and if there wasn’t wage freezes there were caps of 2-3% on raises and increased cost associated with medical… my current job after a period of unemployment started 10% below my previous base and that was toward the top of the grade range.</p>
<p>One of the problems facing new grads is that folks with far more experience are trickling down and, taking jobs, which, in better times would go to college grads [not that I blame 'em!]</p>
<p>^^it’s interesting because I’ve been “pricing” out and reading real listings my recruiter pals send me to forward to son for the type of job my he would be in the market for early next year and many “entry level” jobs are looking for 2-5 years experience which I find interesting. I do believe one of the most important things kids can do is hold down a couple jobs and/or a decent “real” internship and I’ve advised my sons in that direction. Also like college apps if you have something unusual to offer all the better, a second language, a male looking in a predominantly female field or vice versa, an internship where you worked on a project with attributable metrix…industry experience…all those sorts of real world things help greatly.</p>
<p>I also told my kids not to discount an industry. As an example, you don’t need to be an environmental studies or petroleum engineering or geology major to work in the energy industry (no BP jokes, please) the industry needs HR people, needs finance people, needs marketing and sales, needs PR (lots these days), staff photographers …all kinds of slots that fit all kinds of people. The path is not often linear and requires some out of the box thinking.</p>
<p>It also really helps if someone is able to understand that if there isn’t a job it isn’t personal. So much of what kids do in the academic world, including applying to colleges, actually has this personal element attached to it.</p>
<p>I noticed with my daughter this year that she just got to work on finding work and didn’t take one “no” personally. She just kept at it until she got something she liked. When we talked about it she said that the kids who take it as a personal rejection weren’t really getting the internships because by the third or fourth interview, they felt like they were doing something wrong. </p>
<p>She had a lot of coaching from her dad on this, though, so I can’t take any credit for that one. I take ALL rejections of my children personally! 
kidding. sort of.</p>
<p>All rejections of one’s children must be avenged. I have a little list…</p>
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I’m wondering if that’s worse in the technical fields, where a lot of attention would be paid to specific skills – whereas in a job like my daughter’s, they might be wary of hiring someone who is less likely to stick around working at an entry-level salary. It has also been my experience that in non-technical fields – older employees often lack the computer skills that are second nature to the youngsters.</p>
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I told my d. to expect to send at least 90 resumes in the current market; she ended up sending out about 30 – and I thought she was doing well. She actually went to a couple of rather wonky job interviews along the way. But its a good way to build up experience - she’d call me and tell me about the questions they had asked that she felt she had flubbed, and we’d brainstorm about better answers … so the next time around, she was better prepared. </p>
<p>She also called up an alum from her school who worked for a place where she had applied, to arrange an informational meeting. She also used the resources of her college career center to the max, especially for the various workshops they offered geared to building interview and networking skills, etc.</p>
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If the kid gets FIRED, after having been hired… that’s personal.</p>
<p>Most companies using 'internships" now do so as a way of getting free labour while giving little back IMO</p>
<p>^^No I don’t agree with pacboy. These days most internships are paid. Years ago this was not as true. Some companies provide housing, extra-curriculuar activities and other perks. There is an associated cost to go find interns and onboard them. It’s not a revenue stream. Internships have always played a part in company HR tactics. Interns do not have the depth and breath of experience that people in the workforce for a few years have. Their employment is short term. There is a difference between co-op and interning. It’s not “free labor” it take much time on the part of the manager and others in the company to monitor, mentor, assist an intern. It’s a program that can easily be cut when financial times are tight in a company. Very few people involved in intern programs think of it as ‘free labor.’ A robust internship program garners the intern much value.</p>
<p>You should see how much they pay in india/china, $2000 USD PER YEAR.</p>
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lol, I would NEVER do an unpaid internship… I’d rather relax on the beach all summer if the income would be the same :/</p>
<p>The current downturn in starting salaries is mostly supply and demand. I recall some periods of time that combined inflation and high demand for grads - new grads were getting paid more than employees with similar skills who had been with the company for years. The firms didn’t blindly choose to pay the new grads that much, they simply had no choice if they wanted to fill the openings.</p>
<p>A low starting salary can indeed have long-term salary consequences. Firms will tend to grant percentage increases whenever possible, often capped at a modest level. Even when promoting an individual, current salary often plays a role in determining where pay will fall in the range for the new position. Ditto for changing companies, if the employee discloses his/her current pay and doesn’t bargain hard for a salary appropriate for the new position.</p>
<p>In a few years, starting salaries should snap back to more normal levels, except in fields where structural change has taken place (e.g., offshoring or automation). The real challenge will be for those individuals who started jobs this year - they will have to push for parity or change jobs to take advantage of the improved salary environment.</p>
<p>As far as government jobs being desirable and high-paying, I wouldn’t bet on it in the long run. For one, there is a looming pension crisis as many government entities continue to offer poorly funded defined benefit pension plans vs. 401K/403B style plans that don’t create long-term liabilities. Furthermore, I doubt if many taxpayers will tolerate a government that offers its employees significantly higher salaries and benefits than the taxpayers themselves are receiving. I expect more layoffs as well as severe caps on salaries and benefits.</p>
<p>The last paragraph depends on how many government employees there are relative to other voters.</p>
<p>Once government workers reach a certain critical voting mass, its “bread and circuses” time.</p>
<p>One resolution of the declining need for labor in an automated age is simply putting unneeded workers on the government payroll.</p>