Points well taken on academics (rigor seems strong at Lehigh from visits), and campus culture, they will ask about the campus culture specifically.
I think Bates is a fine school - itās where you wrote -
- fewest barriers to business/engineering if student pivots to those areas
Why visit a school they might love if this is potentially a desire and then it makes that decision that much more difficult should they love it?
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Thank you for all of this info and the Feb. break date range. C25 had toured Middlebury a while ago, and was on their list. Bates seemed more like a fit to them, but at a later point in the application process so they were not able to tour in person. They are going to visit campuses again (Bates for the first time and Lehigh for the second). For Bates families, how have your students found student life (one main dining hall aspect, dorm life, clubs and campus activities)?
The size has actually worked well for my D. She applied almost exclusively to LACs ā thatās the experience she was looking for. She came from a huge high school, and while she never felt lost or anonymous there, she still wanted a different experience for college. She didnāt want large lecture classes, she wanted to get to know her professors well, she didnāt want to be in a larger university where entry to some clubs might be more competitive, etc. So she got what she was looking for.
The only downside to being in a small school ā and this will be true in any LAC, I think ā is that any change in the faculty has an even bigger impact in terms of course selection and availability than it would in a larger university. So departments might not have the same breadth of offerings all the time (sometimes students need to wait a semester to get into courses that are in high demand). If a professor goes on sabbatical or leaves, the gap is more noticeable than it would be at a larger school. But itās all worked out regardless. I think my D had to take one prereq for one of her majors later than she would have liked, but she had no trouble finishing it on time to proceed in the major. After freshman year, students are generally able to sign up for the courses they want, when they want to take them, because they are generally past the more high-demand intro courses at that point. Also, in one of Dās majors, her likely thesis adviser is going to be on sabbatical during the first semester of my daughterās senior year, so theyāre working together to figure out how she can do an honors thesis (which is a two-semester project) if she wants to ā they might work on it second semester junior year and second-semester senior year. In a small school, such arrangements are possible. Also, I think Bates is in the process of hiring a lot of tenure-track faculty to fill some gaps.
You also mentioned geography, so I should add that my D absolutely loves Maine. The weather doesnāt bother her (sheās from Colorado and is used to winter, though New England winters are a bit different ā that said, as westcoastfam mentioned above, that February break comes at a good time for New England winters! I used to teach HS in Connecticut, and public schools there had the same break.). She loves being able to go out to the coast, or to Portland, or to the wooded bird sanctuary thatās close to the college. She has friends with cars, so sheās been able to explore a bit with them. And I know that Lewiston is not the most picturesque college town, but she really likes it, rough edges and all. It feels like an authentic and thriving community to her.
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This has been a huge plus. My D really likes having the single dining hall, because it means that no matter when she goes in for a meal, sheāll probably find someone she knows. She also hangs out with friends and studies in the student-run coffee shop on campus. Clubs have worked out well for her, too. As I mentioned in my post above, clubs can be competitive in larger schools, and this often includes student newspapers. She has a background in student journalism, and she joined the student newspaper as soon as she got to campus as a freshman. She rose through the ranks over the last couple of years and was just elected co-editor-in-chief for next year. That probably wouldnāt have been possible at a larger school. Sheās joined some clubs that she probably didnāt plan to join, because her friends are in them (art club, for instance), and sheās really enjoyed them, and she just co-founded a birding club, which has garnered a lot of interest. So I think clubs have really enhanced her experience. Dorm life has worked out well for her, too, though mainly thatās just been lucky. Sheās gotten rooms in the smaller, wood-frame houses (these are Bates dorms ā just much smaller than traditional dorms, which are also available) on streets adjacent to campus. These houses tend to be quieter than the big dorms. One way to get into a house like this as a first-year is to request the freshman healthy-living (substance-free) or quiet dorm. Both of those are in houses rather than in large dorms.
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Yes, agreed - itās one of many factors C25 is considering. Iām along for the ride (with guidance as needed fiscally and feature wise) and accumulating as much info as possible to share with them in this process. Thank you to everyone for your input, truly multiple perspectives are key to helping in the process.
Lehigh - Lehigh is C25ās favorite at this point.
Bates - C25 likes a liberal and inclusive environment that values lots of perspectives, and their current HS has been the same type of environment. There have been several students from their HS that have gone to Bates and had great experiences and outcomes there. Due to the varied interests, C25 considering SLAC environment versus pre professional mid size university like Lehigh.
Skidmore - I think with all things being equal, C25 prefers coastal Maine/proximity to the airports in Portland/Boston for flights home than Skidmoreās location at this point. The science facilities and pre-med advising seems very strong from the virtual sessions Iāve watched. Business fit would work, too, for them probably more than Bates, but they are not really seeing themselves at Skidmore.
Engineering- engineering (and accounting/CPA which is also being considered) is a tough go if itās not set from the very start (would extend undergrad beyond 4 years possibly, which for C25 would be possible if necessary). Even at Lehigh and other more pre-professional LACās/mid-sized universities, it would be a navigation process over the first year to switch colleges, have a high GPA, and make connections with professors for consideration to switch colleges/divisions into highly competitive business or engineering majors. I think this is why Tulane stayed in the running as long as it did, because of the flexibility of majors (although even with not declaring if you are looking at a specific path you have to plan and execute on your four year sequence of classes from the start). CC has been so helpful in educating us on all of the considerations involved, as well as the individual college websites and family members who are
CPAs and engineers.
Thanks for all of your help and input!
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As per C25, Lehigh, Bates, and Santa Clara (if thereās a pivot based on sunlight/warm weather) are all being considered, with the favorite as Lehigh currently. Super grateful for these options for C25 and for all of your input and advice.
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Look carefully at the 4 year plans for engineering. It IS possible at some schools to fully commit to engineering later - IF the student is careful with prereqs and/or has AP credits. My son was on the fence on engineering vs data science or some other STEM field so we really looked hard at this. He did have some AP credits that helped, but as long as he continued the math and science sequences that would be applicable to other majors, it was possible at several schools to not fully commit to engineering and still graduate on time. My recollection was that Calculus and Physics sequences were most critical for preqs.
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Thanks for this insight! Lafayette would have the best case scenario for no barrier to engineering from what I know of each of the schools, so they will have to consider this. Iāll make sure that they know to look at Calc and Physics for first year planning and to follow the course catalog at their school of choice. Thanks again!
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Late to the thread, but fist of all, congrats on such an excellent list of acceptances! No wrong choices there
My son is a junior at Bates and is an economics major and has been pleased with his experience with his classes and the professors in the department. I can echo a lot of the comments above about Bates, and he has a close group of friends, but also finds the social scene on campus and in Lewiston engaging and fun, but also appreciates the ability to drive a short distance to get out into nature and go hiking etc. He has enjoyed the small class sizes and the community at the schoolā¦he is an athlete, but also has friends who are on involved in his sport as well.
Please feel free to reach out with any questions or if you need any additional information.
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This is why Bates should stay on the list. Itās one of the NESCAC schools that partner with Dartmouthās five-year dual degree program:
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We donāt know that the student will want engineering - but being set up for a 2-1-1-1 or 3-2, while could be ok for some, a student has to realize:
- Itās another year of tuition
- Itās another year of non earning
- They have to leave their home early and re establish elsewhere
If someone were ok with that, itās always an option.
Engineering is really never not an option. It just comes with the factors above.
My guess is OP wonāt end up in engineering. Typically if youāre going to be an engineer, you know up front. Not in every case but typically. Kids that ātryā to do it is likely part of the reason it has a 50% drop out/not finish rate.
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Not sure I understand this one.
Meaning either (on the Dartmouth Plan) they have to leave home (Bates) and alternate - or most likely they do the 3-2 so they are three years one place and two another. Iām using home as a sub for Bates because after 3 years itās their home.
I would think itād be tough for someone to leave their people a year earlyā¦and tough to join after others have met people for 3 years and have all their contacts established for two years.
Iām just not a fan of these programs and I think if a student truly had an interest in engineering, I would shy away from even visiting - because if you visit and like, now youāve got a conundrum. Not to mention youāre out many thousands more in tuition and lost income - nearly $200K if full pay.
And then of course, even if you said, Iāll do it - I donāt care - well you like one school. How do you know youād like the other??
But they have the programs and some use them - but itās why Iād be skeptical - personally.
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Ah, got it. Yeah, as I understand the Dartmouth plan which includes nearly all the NESCAC colleges (I think Tufts and Trinity have their own engineering programs), the kids leave āhomeā for their junior year which would be the same as a Year Abroad program. Unlike the typical 3-2 dual degree program, Batesies would come back from Dartmouth in time to graduate with their homies.
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If a student is sure they want to be an engineer, I would think long and hard about these 3-2 programs as you wisely point out. We have many engineers in our family (so many itās honestly strange, is it genetic???āand heaven help me Iām an arts person! 
) and alum of / current students at Lehigh, Bucknell, Tufts, MIT, and Cornell. Not one aspiring engineer chose a 3-2 program (though they had that option among their acceptances) because in 5 years at a school with an engineering program you can have a masterās degree! They all love to point this out, agog that anyone would spend the extra tuition and NOT get the masters that so many engineers want and need. Of course, I pointed out the value of the humanities at the 3-2 schools and was in favor of that option. I still think it sounds great! And maybe it is if a kid isnāt sure what they want. I do have a C24 in engineering school right now, loving it. But they knew from the get-go they wanted that.
Your kiddo has so many wonderful acceptances! Congrats on all the terrific options.
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My friendsā child is at Bates. They are a history major, who was told that they could not do a double major in English or minor in English. I recommend looking closely at the list of minors because you cannot minor in many subjects, including biochemistry, biology, economics, English, environmental studies, psychology, sociology, etc. My childrenās colleges made it easy to minor in pretty much anything so I donāt think Bates has a great amount of academic flexibility for many areas of study. Academics | Bates College
We toured Lehigh and Lafayette. I especially liked Lafayette, but it is a small school so there are larger schools if that is your childās preference. Good luck!
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Thank you for the information, link, and for highlighting the Bates engineering 3+2 program options. C25 is reading all schoolsā course catalogs closely before they reach a decision, but all of these links are so helpful!!
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